"Marvel's Runaways" , A Hulu Original Series

I mean, Molly taking down Frank makes total sense the way it happened.

He underestimated her, like nearly everybody does because she's a tiny little girl and he had no idea she had super-strength. So she sucker punches him and one-shots him.

And "character X beats character Y because the writer likes X more" is basically how comics work.

As I said, the opposite is far more of a common problem. Writers (Gaaarth Enniiiis) bending themselves backwards to give the Punisher an edge against people who clearly should wipe the floor with him (like, say, Wolverine).

"All you Fascists bound to lose."

Yeah, Ennis' man crush on the Punisher is probably why he was given the MAX imprint to use him in.

I don't know if I ever proposed it as a trope, but I've thought of something I call "Batman's Law" that definitely applies with the Punisher. Essentially, justifying a Badass Normal character in a setting where there's lots of super-powered people understandably means that writers have to give that character skills- often tactical expertise- that evens the footing. However, this has a tendency to transition into the character as being better than everyone else.

This is somewhat unavoidable because if you want to justify the character's presence and not have them come across as a joke (cf. Black Widow and Hawkeye in the MCU!Avengers), they kind of have to be super-competent. Which is why in Runaways and other stories where the Punisher gets taken down a peg, it's presented at least partly as Reality Ensues.

edited 4th May '17 8:55:25 AM by Hodor2

Which actually was the best use of him, because Punisher MAX was pretty much a world without any superheroes, so the Punisher made the most sense there.

I see people say things like this and it amuses me, because Ennis' run seems to be one of the most critical of Punisher as a character. I'm sure the character interests him obviously but if you actually read it, he's presented in a very unflattering light.

Ennis very much errs on the side that thinks Punisher is basically a deeply disturbed serial murderer who just uses the "They're criminals" thing to justify it to himself.

Ennis does have a very dark view of Castle but he also, simultaneously, holds this tormented anti hero nature as being superior to regular heroes (and he also views Punisher as almost an unstoppable force of nature). One thing does not negate the other.

Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe is one that kind of showcases that. Ennis clearly takes perverse pleasure in showing Punisher annihilating all those pansy heroes but at the same time he's also aware he's a deeply troubled person.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."

That's because he dislikes most superheroes in general. I wouldn't take it personally. That seems less to do with him sucking Punisher's dick and thinking he's the bestest ever and more like him just using the character as a vehicle to spell out how he feels about the spandex set.

Really, I think it's both. Garth Ennis is very clear on his worldview across his works, and it's clear he deeply admires war veterans (like Frank) and tough masculine men (like Frank) who do justice despite society telling them not to (like Frank).

"All you Fascists bound to lose."

And yet he adores Superman.

The f*ck.

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Ennis' view of Frank or Frank wank is irrelevant. Joss inserted Punisher into his comic specifically just to beat on him. He had no role in the story except for Whedon to thump his "I'm the most liberal motherfucker around" chest.

The Punisher was in comics fighting supers for decads before Ennis came along. He pretty much lways loses, even against the lowest level of supers, like Daredevil. I don't see why this is a problem.

All the comic writers I know, no matter how "gritty" they like their stories, love Superman.

edited 4th May '17 10:55:33 AM by Nikkolas

You have some issues with Joss Whedon, huh? This is the second thread I've seen you bring up your dislike of him in.

He's said he likes the ideas behind Superman and Wonder Woman, which I can see.

edited 4th May '17 10:57:12 AM by comicwriter

Let's get back to Runaways, which is on Hulu, so it probably can't use Punisher, who's on Netflix.

Seriously Marvel, what gives with that?

That's not Marvel's say. It was said a while back Netflix wasn't keen on the idea of more Marvel shows when they already have 6.

We've already got these six incredibly popular shows that everyone and their grandma loves. I would hate for us to make even more money by adding another series that everyone will love.

You fell victim to one of the classic blunders!

There is such a thing as over specialization.

A show doesn't just materialize out of thin air. Like any other network they've got a finite budget and number of production slots.

7 Marvel shows might be fine if that were all Netflix did, but it isn't. When you're trying to have a diverse content lineup, you don't want to be spending all your money on one franchise.

edited 5th May '17 7:06:11 AM by comicwriter

Netflix is not just for comic book fans. Plus, even comic book fans have limited time. A lot of them are already struggling to keep up with all the content which Marvel puts out on Netflix alone.

I, for one, still need to watch Luke Cage and Iron Fist.

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I dunno, it seems like Netflix debuts a new series every other week.

But not a Marvel show. That's the point. They want to be known as something other than the Marvel Network. The money and production time spent on a potential Runaways show is money and production time that could be going to something original.

edited 5th May '17 1:37:27 PM by comicwriter

Considering how "meh" it apparently did, I bet Netflix wished it spent less on The Get Down as far as production costs go.

edited 5th May '17 12:22:55 PM by Beatman1

I heard The Get Down was good? In any case, Netflix does both good shows (Dear White People) and bad shows (Richie Rich).

It was among the most expensive series ever produced and its views were well below expectations.

That's just me talking about the budget though.

edited 5th May '17 12:51:20 PM by Beatman1

I don't have Hulu, but I don't mind the Runaways being on it. Because it'll be on a different network and will therefore have different input from said network, it should help make this distinct from the Netflix series. Like there's apparently a ton of overlap between the various Netflix shows behind the camera and you can tell. Runaways and the Freeform series look completely different, which could be great.

I'd love for the TV shows to emphasize the shared universe more, not just the Netflix shows. Sure, it's tough to schedule, but it'd be super fun. The DC CW shows have been doing a great job of this, though admittedly they have the benefit of only one network and that they shoot in the same location (except for the first crossover with Supergirl).