Broken Base Cleanup

Ship-to-Ship Combat is its own item and the appropriate examples should go there. However, I think examples regarding liking versus disliking canon ships, as well as "this part of fandom is very into shipping and this other part is really against it," could still qualify if both sides are vocal and intense enough. (South Park is a great example — there's a very large side of the fandom that ships the boys together, and another very large side of fandom that derides this. Both sides mock each other a lot for not enjoying the show the "right" way.)

Heck, fanon shipping is still tied to how people interpret specific characters, because the characters and the moments interpreted as shippy still come from the work, so it still comes from the work itself. But it should be more specific than "Some fans like shipping and others don't" — i.e. how people may see certain famous scenes as shippy while others insist they're not.

Edited by mightymewtron on Nov 20th 2023 at 3:06:42 PM

There really needs to be a YMMV trope specifically involving a war between the shippers and the anti-shippers. This would help clean up BrokenBase.South Park.

I don't know how many examples we could gather of specifically that that wouldn't invite excess complaining. Why can't it just be part of Broken Base?

I don't think ships (at least non canon ones) should count as Broken Base as they don't come from the show but rather the fandom.

And even then, pretty much every ship has anti-shippers who hate a certain ship for one reason or another? You could make an entry for pretty much anything with a trope like that.

In the current day transformative fandom is de facto welcoming of shipping and having notable divisions where people refuse to ship anything at all is probably distinct from your average Ship-to-Ship Combat where people are anti-[Ship A] because they ship [Ship B] or because of Dry Docking or because they just don't like the ship.

Though it's still very rare for the "no ships at all" division to have any notable impact on overall fandom. The only real examples I can think of is like pre-2010s fandoms where slash-shipping and fanon shipping were still contested for their deviation from canon, and in present-day a number of Minecraft Youtuber RPF fandoms like Dream SMP heavily police any Actor Shipping content, to the point that people go out of their way to avoid listing RPF ship fanfiction under the fandom or character tags on Archive of Our Own.

As a fandom trend it certainly exists but IMO it'd be either too rare (if it has to be a notable contingent that affects the rest of fandom) or too common (if it's just anyone who decides shipping isn't for them, which basically every fandom has even if they're practically unseen) depending on the scope of "gen/canon-only vs shippers".

Also WRT the original query, I also support putting relevant examples under Ship-to-Ship Combat instead.

Edited by lapistier on Nov 20th 2023 at 5:01:51 AM

YMMV.Contra has an entry regarding the Contra Anniversary Collection that has less to do with the contents of any of the games and instead boils down to "Do you still hate Konami or not?" Is that allowed, given that it's an argument that is hardly exclusive to the Contra series?

• The Contra: Anniversary Collection, as with anything done by Konami after 2020's. Take your pick between: "Never forget and forgive that Konami has been corrupt since 2015/2016 and they're probably still abusing their workers! This is just a distraction, do not be gullible and give them money!" camp and "Hey, this is a nice collection of their golden days and works fine, plus we haven't heard anything ridiculously horrid since Rogue Corps, without proofs, we cannot just assume things. Okay, we can try to move on and relive our happy past, give small praise when it's due and they're not screwing up." camp.

Pre-2010, most slash/fanon v canon fights were ship- versus anti-ship fights, using canon as the weapon. Most of the time, non-shippers are so disinterested in shipping that they don't care if it happens or doesn't in canon, fanon, or elsewhere. They don't care enough to fight about it. That's why non-shippers ususally fly under the radar.

Concerning this: heads up that I'll be taking it to the Trope Description Improvement Drive for further advice.

In YMMV.Fire Emblem Heroes, under the Base-Breaking Character entry:

• Gullveig has garnered a very divisive reception, even before Book VII had ended. On one hand, her fans love Gullveig for being a surprisingly sad and sympathetic villain who was destined to destroy the world and everyone she loved. In addition, they love her for having a heartfelt ending with her past selves Kvasir and Seiðr once the cycle is broken, wanting to give her the happiness that she deserves. The fact that she won Choose Your Legends 7 and received a Brave version upon learning this information helped win the hearts of her fans. On the other hand, Gullveig's detractors hate Gullveig as they believe the game's attempts to make her sympathetic fall flat for several reasons: First, despite being Seiðr from the future, Gullveig has no personality, motivation or desire other than to destroy the world, which makes her come across as a Generic Doomsday Villain despite not doing anything truly villainous after her introduction of defeating the heroes in the first chapter. Second, they believed that Gullveig killing Njörðr immediately after the reveal that he was behind her creation, combined with Nerþuz removing the curse that Njörðr had transferred to Seiðr after said reveal took away any and all Catharsis Factor to killing both Njörðr and Gullveig, making the story end off on a very anticlimactic note than anticipated after said reveal. Her very sexy design certainly didn't help matters either, as some either love her design because of it, or hate it for the same reason.

I'm sorry, when did she become divisive again?

You'll want to take that to the Base Breaking Character cleanup thread instead.

From YMMV.Chikn Nuggit:

• Broken Base:
  • Sometime after Bezel's introduction, since it was confirmed that Bezel would play a part in some kind of "storyline", it was clear that Kyra wanted to take Chikn Nuggit in a new direction. A discussion then sparked about that, or more specifically: should Chikn "become something greater than shorts"? in other words: should the series get rid of the shorts format, in favor of having longer episodes? On one hand, the series could expand upon its lore, episode plots, and characters more than 30-second shorts could. Another major point is that it'll keep the series fresh as this was around the time that it was experiencing the most negative feedback it has ever seen. Such feedback is directed in regards to being tired of the jokes and gags, finding the characters interesting, but flat, and just being bored of the format in general. Some have even argued that they want longer episodes, but with more of a casual slice of lifestyle, and maybe an epic adventurous story, like the lore currently being made in the works. And with a tv series being developed soon, people have stated that the lore should continue on there. On the other side, some fans believe that the episodes being bite-sized skits is the series' main appeal, and what the series should always be, and that introducing more serious stories and lore will ruin that. Some are even afraid that Chikn Nuggit would become "super serious" and it'll lose its humorous appeal.
    • Following that, every time the series tried its hand at having some big serious lore or story beat, the reaction can get a bit mixed. While it has been liked by some fans of the show, it has also been criticized, especially by others who were originally fans but stopped watching after sometime, mainly due to the fact that it either barely makes any sense, can get tiresome and tedious to watch, or is just rather silly and dumb. And also, some people have made points that making lore in a miniseries is not really possible, especially with just sub-30 second bite sized shorts. Is all the "serious lore" really an interesting way to take the series in a new direction and explore the characters more? Or is it part of a series that originally started off simple, but is now trying to make a half-baked attempt at trying to be deep and interesting for no reason other than to get people talking? Not helping is that lore shorts have had an inconsistent schedule, taking a few weeks long, or even a month or two, mainly due to the fact that the show still does its standard form of episodes that take up 90% of the show, with very few lore shorts happening. Because of this, fans of this show eagerly waiting for the lore shorts have been angered in impatience ever since, especially when they want their questions regarding the lore to be answered already.

A fairly large wall of text with indentation issues which seems to be biased towards the anti-Lore side. I'm not familiar enough with the shorts or its community to fix it myself.

As a fan of Chikn Nuggit, i never really saw anyone super against the lore direction? Like i can see why some would see it as a turn-off but i figured it wasn't big enough to justify a wall of text.

Janky Kong: I'd say you can delete that. A proper entry would be about something controversial in the games themselves. This is just a reminder that Konami is Overshadowed by Controversy, as if we needed another.

Tinkaton has been been cut and readded from the Pokémon subpage of Ensemble Dark Horse multiple times, despite it being decided in an ATT of mine that she should stay. I have since found out that this is because she is also on Pokémon's Base Breaking Characters page, and that is apparently against the rules.

I don't think this entry is fully valid.

• Tinkaton. One camp loves it for its unique design and Girl with Psycho Weapon concept, powerful Secret Art of Gigaton Hammer, and the lore and memes surrounding its hobby of trying knocking Corviknight out of the sky. Its popularity had even led it to previously be considered the unequivocal Ensemble Dark Horse mon of the generation, with favorable comparisons to other popular characters like Harley Quinn and Power. Others feel some degree of Hype Backlash towards the gremlin, with some even worrying that TPC may make it into an overmarketed Spotlight-Stealing Squad just like any other unusually popular Pokémon. Other criticisms are directed towards its design, with it being another Hu Mon much like Gardevoir/Gallade and Mr. Mime (a class of Pokémon designs that tend to be divisive), and some people finding its stubby proportions to be aesthetically unappealing given its status as a third-stage evolution.

As stated in the entry itself, the discourse that a vocal minority has with Tinkaton is of the Hype Backlash and It's Popular, So It Sucks! variety. I have never seen any of these design criticisms before; I've seen people criticize the designs of its pre-evolutions, but even then those people tend to admit they still like Tinkaton. Most notably, said entry outright calls Tinkaton a darkhorse.

Edited by AlmightyKingPrawn on Nov 30th 2023 at 2:57:40 PM

I'd say cut

Cut, the example's arguing with itself by admitting the other faction is a Vocal Minority.

Edited by Riolugirl on Dec 2nd 2023 at 3:55:12 PM

The page for Mario Kart 8 is WAY too bloated, with most of the conflicts mentioned on the page being ones that were short-term debates or made irrelevant with The Booster Course Pass (particularly the merits of Deluxe's existence, or the complaints about the base roster).

The only entries on the page I see still debated within the community are the quality of Rainbow Road (both the N64 recreation and the one made for 8), Deluxe removing the Firehopping exploit, Deluxe lacking any unlockable characters, and Deluxe bringing back the Double Item Box mechanic from Double Dash (and even that I could see getting removed from the page, given Wave 6 patched out the ability to camp item spawn locations). Everything else, I'd be in favor of removing from the page.

Edited by Mariofan99 on Dec 5th 2023 at 2:57:24 PM

Re: Tinkaton - I understand and agree with the explanation. That said, can an an Ensemble Dark Horse still qualify for Hype Backlash even if there's not much criticism towards the character itself but rather the attention it's getting, without automatically becoming a Base-Breaking Character?

Edited by 2HeadedMoonOctopus on Dec 5th 2023 at 7:07:11 AM

The part about Mercedes-Benz should be kept because it was a valid debate over the appropriateness of real-world Product Placement in a Mario Kart game, though the debate died down significantly with the addition of courses based on real-world cities in the Booster Course Pass that make the Mercedes-Benz karts feel much more natural and less out of place, thereby providing greater justification for the inclusion of these karts.

Edited by Nen_desharu on Dec 6th 2023 at 1:01:50 PM

should any Wii U entry besides that and Rainbow Road be kept? Broken Base is defined by “long term widespread debate” but aside from a tiny Vocal Minority nobody cares about the Wii U version anymore, with few people even acknowledging its existence

Edited by Mariofan99 on Dec 6th 2023 at 12:10:22 PM

Other than Rainbow Road and the Mercedes-Benz karts, I don't have much to say regarding keeping or removing the other entries.

Edited by Nen_desharu on Dec 6th 2023 at 1:00:33 PM

Is there a way to condense this very, very long entry on YMMV.Gravity Falls Lost Legends?

Yeah, that's way too long. They were added by a user who had a particular dislike for Mabel later on in the show. That said, I think it's worth keeping since it's still a sore spot for some fans, it just needs to be shortened and sound less biased (the entire section going off about Mabel's character in the rest of the show seems incredibly one-sided). How about:

• "Don't Dimension It" focusing on Mabel's actions that lead to Weirdmageddon has split fans. A good portion of the fanbase was very happy with the comic and argue that it was a nice addition to canon, while others think it didn't do enough to redeem Mabel's actions or address her flaws as a character.

I agree with that the current is too long, mostly due to its Walls of Text, and I prefer the rewrite at. I also feel the example is valid as the community is divided over it and it seems to be a controversial topic.