Complaining (alt names crowner 9/30/16): They Just Didnt Care

You'd need to establish the standards for "obviously the case," especially since what seems like an "obvious case" might not be an obvious case at all.

Tightening the standards for They Just Didn't Care is a good thing, since it discourages complaining. The fact that we're not getting a lot of examples is not necessarily a bad thing.

I do think a rename might be a good idea, just to see if it can cut down on misuse.

edited 26th Sep '16 1:43:03 PM by dragonfire5000

I like Creator's Apathy for the rename.

edited 26th Sep '16 1:46:43 PM by Karxrida

^^^ Even your given example of an "obvious" case of the creators not caring ("one season of a cult favorite anime being dubbed, but the rest not") doesn't strike me as "obvious."

It's not hard to imagine the creators of that dub putting their hearts and souls into dubbing that one season because they have so much love for the show that they really want it to be successful, only to be heartbroken when it doesn't make enough money for a second season dub to be financially feasible.

Does that sound like a case where they "just didn't care"?

edited 26th Sep '16 2:17:41 PM by HighCrate

But not dubbing a fan-favorite is sometimes considered a slap in the face to fans. Even if it wasn't financially successful, they should've at least taken fans' reactions to the dub into consideration.

When it moves to another licensor for instance, who decides not to finish the dub, it can still technically be that the licensor just didn't care (i.e. Sentai dubbed K-On and Rozen Maiden OVAs, but did not dub the rest of Familiar of Zero or When They Cry).

edited 28th Sep '16 10:48:05 AM by TheNohrianDarkKnight

This trope is no longer about how fans feel since it led to Trope Decay (used for any form of complaint). No Dub for You, Internet Backdraft and Ruined FOREVER would describe what you are proposing without the ambiguity that led to the redefinition.

But is obvious that Sentai did not care about finishing the dub for those 2 shows, especially since When They Cry was technically a cult classic despite not being financially successful.

edited 28th Sep '16 10:55:28 AM by TheNohrianDarkKnight

It was decided that it's only "obvious" when they outright admit they didn't care, since otherwise, it's impossible to tell if if it was a genuine lack of care, accidental mistakes, or circumstances beyond their control (like in your example, what if economic circumstances made it unfeasible to continue the dub regardless of how the creators feel? How would you know that was not the case?).

Arguments like this— in which multiple people point out that there are all kinds of explanations for why a show might not receive a dub other than the dub company just plain not giving a shit, and you plugging your ears and repeating "la la la no they clearly hate me personally and are doing it out of spite"— are exactly the reason why the Word of God requirement was added.

edited 28th Sep '16 12:18:34 PM by HighCrate

Can we have a crowner for the new name?

Lack of money leads to not caring about the quality sometimes, as pointed out in the description.

"Sometimes", but not always. Word of God is the only way to be sure.

Sometimes you just have to accept that, at the end of the day, these projects are funded by businesses who have to be realistic with their budget. If the dub was too expensive and/or just not being profitable, they can't continue to fund it because they don't want to lose money. They could definitely still care about the project but be forced into a corner because money makes the world go around and they want to continue doing what they're doing.

But sometimes, you have to take risks to please fans. I think the case with Sentai not dubbing those 2 series was a case of not caring about the fanbase who liked the dubs of the first season of those shows. Heck, Cristina Vee, who voiced Louise in FoZ's first season, expressed interest in reprising her on Twitter. Hard work pays off, going the easy route doesn't. That is why I believe in this case Sentai just didn't care about finishing the dub.

edited 28th Sep '16 5:52:48 PM by TheNohrianDarkKnight

It doesn't matter what you personally believe is the truth when writing an entry for They Just Didn't Care. Word of God is needed so that They Just Didn't Care doesn't decay into a complaining platform for salty individuals with a bone to pick.

You've already been given quite a few examples of how the example you gave might not qualify. Your refusal to listen shows exactly why the Word of God requirement is needed: to make sure Wild Mass Guessing stays on the Wild Mass Guessing pages and cutting down on the amount of complaining on the wiki.

edited 28th Sep '16 6:18:59 PM by dragonfire5000

I'm not complaining. I'm stating the facts.

Didn't say you were complaining, just saying why the Word of God requirement is needed. What you are doing, however, is engaging in Wild Mass Guessing with your Sentai example, which reinforces why the requirement was set in the first place. If you want that example put into They Just Didn't Care, you're going to need more than your own "intuition." You need Word of God that they half-assed something.

And no, Wild Mass Guessing based on what is personally "obvious" to you is not an appropriate substitute for Word of God.

edited 28th Sep '16 6:37:19 PM by dragonfire5000

"Sentai" is not an entity with hopes and dreams that is capable of caring or not caring about anything. It is a collection of individuals, and those individuals may care more or less about things. It sounds like Christina Vee cares at least a bit about reprising her role, and is likely disappointed that she cannot due to financial realities. By extension, we can assume that there are likely more individuals within Sentai that feel the way she does.

Thank you. We now have more hard evidence that they DO care than we have that they DON'T, and a perfect example of why Word of God is useful in these cases.

More like why Word of God is necessary, I would think.

Well, the example with Cristina Vee's Twitter illustrates why it's useful. People like Nohrian who persist in silly arguments like this despite all available evidence being against them illustrate why it's necessary.

It was not a silly argument. It's reasonable to assume that the people at Sentai apparently did NOT care. There were other options. They could've done a in-house dub like what Funimation did with Shakugan No Shana (where they re-casted people because they couldn't hire Ocean Group), but apparantly Sentai never thought of that as an option. Or heck, they could've used crowdfunding like Kickstarter (which was how Funimation financed the Escaflowne re-dub and how Pied Piper Inc. financed the dub for Skip Beat). And apparently, they never read Vee's tweet.

I don't think Word of God is necessary. Financial reasons can be a legitimate reason why the creators just didn't care.

edited 28th Sep '16 8:23:12 PM by TheNohrianDarkKnight

Maybe the other options honestly didn't occur to them, or maybe there were reasons you are unaware of. Unless you have evidence of such (reconfirming the necessity of citations), your example is indistinguishable from complaining, which is not trope worthy.

Update: while finance can be a reason for not caring, it can just as easily be argued as reason why they were unable to do something despite caring. This ambiguity (quickly pointed out in you example against said ambiguity) is why we needed something unambiguous (citation) to keep it trope worthy.

edited 28th Sep '16 8:43:43 PM by Ferot_Dreadnaught

Speaking of No Dub for You, I noticed this example was added to the related tropes section:

• No Dub for You (particularly, when one season of an anime is already dubbed, but the rest of the series is not)

Considering how this thread has demonstrated that No Dub for You is not a solid indicator that the people just didn't care, should the example be taken out or revised?

Cut it, burn it, load ashes into rocket, fire rocket into sun.

A lot of the tropes listed there are things that don't necessarily mean they just didn't care. Should they be removed as well?

At this point just cut that entire section.