Marvel/DC Character Switching

Sooooo... In my free time, on occasion, I've been trying to brainstorm the framework for a hypothetical Alternate Universe, where Marvel characters were made by DC and vice reverser. Mostly, I've been sampling a randomised list of characters, and then trying to come up with a new backstory for them, Marvel/DC style. This, it turns out, is easier said than done, not least because the scales of idealism and cynicism has shifted drastically between the two in the past decade or so. It's all very well coming up with stuff for DC characters in Marvel Style- if I'm really stuck, I can crib from that Just Imagine Stan Lee series. But I cannot find any such source of ideas for the opposite number, and whatever leads I thought I remembered have vanished from my google fu grip.

So, I turn to you, o fellow tropers. Might any of you have any ideas? Suggestions? Anyone know where I can find someone that grappled this sort of thing before? Any input would be greatly appreciated, and I can lay my battered brainpan to rest for a while.

As somebody whose whole high school and college have been reading the Silver Age take on said characters I have a good idea.

For Marvel Characters in the DC, the tone of the stories at the beginning will certainly feel more one shot instead of creating an overachieving story arc. A lot of DC comics in the Silver Age aren't filled with the level of complex storytelling as Marvel. But here are some change in personalities I envisioned the Marvel characters when done in said style:

• The Fantastic Four will probably more of a straight foward sci-if super hero series with self-contained adventures and not a lot of headhunting heroes moments. Any life changing character moments, like Reed & Sue getting married or Johnny going to college won't even happen (in the Silver Age at least, DC haven't fully embrace the Marvel style of character development until the late 60s-early 70s). And the teams exploits will most likely be this universe equivalent of Silver Age Superman (so expect a lot of comic covers highlighting moments where the FF act like dicks). Oh and villains, not a lot of character origins to why they are evil; including Doom who is more like Lex Luthor in this version.
• Spider-Man will have a lot of changes to his character. Instead of a teen who is bitten by a radioactive spider to gain powers, he is a 20-30 year old crime fighter who uses tech to fight crime (think Blue Beetle, but spider based). He have the web shooters, but additionally he would have adhesive gloves and boots allowing him to cling to surface. He still works at the Bugle but instead of a photographer he is a reporter. He also have a sidekick name Kid Aracnid (its Miles Morales in this universe) who is the young photographer who discovered that ace reporter Peter Parker is none other than Spider-Man. Not sure how villains will be portrayed, I merely focused on the changes made on Spidey.
• Hulk won't be the anti heroic character we all know and love. Instead, in this universe the Hulk isn't some separate entity for Bruce but instead a super powered form that Banner can control. T. Ross, instead of being an antagonist, will be more of a comedic side character who is always trying to figure out the true identity of the monster hero and have him contain; he suspects Banner is Hulk so think of Ross here as a cross between J. Jonah Jamension and Lois Lane in military form. Rick Jones naturally will be his sidekick, and I don't know if I should give him the same powers as Hulk Jr. She Hulk's origin will be retained in this universe. So yeah, there is a Hulk Family establish no different from the Batman and Flash family.
• X-Men is a bit tricky, but then I realize why not just make them The Legion of Super-heroes of this universe? The whole mutant angle will be played out, but instead of the message being a metaphor for minorities it will be focus on the youth. In this case the X-Men are a very popular group among teens but divisive among adults who can't decide if the mutants are a threat. Professor Xavier did form the team, but instead of being a mutant himself he is just a professor who studies genetics and have a vast understanding in evolution. Magneto will adhere to his original Lee/Kirby characterization as a megalomaniacal villain bent on conquest and none of that humanizing traits that made him an anti-villain. Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver will start out as villains but change side immediately after their debut as members of the X-Men.
• Ant-Man is changed to actually be an ant sized alien refugee who crash lands on Earth after escaping his dying home world. Using his tech he is able to grow into the size of a human and go under the identity of Dr. Hank Pym. But as Ant-Man he can communicate with any insects due to his biology and, because of the planet's atmosphere, perform super human feats like stength and jumping. Janet van Dyne in this universe is actually a fellow scientist who invented a suit allowing her to fight crime as the Wasp (so she invented Pym Particles, or rather Dyne Particles). And just for fun, the two heroes don't know each other's secret identity. So their relationship differ as Hank and Janet are rival scientist while Ant-Man and Wasp are allies who sports numerous ship tease.
• Iron Man will be a time traveling robot from the far future who is sent back in time to end crime in the past to make the future a better place.
• Thor . . . I got nothing.
• The Avengers will pretty much be just like The Justice League. So expect Hulk to stay on the team. Numerous Marvel heroes joining (Spider-Man). And stories where the team split up to into three separate stories until they come together to defeat the main bad guy. Oh and no clear origin story. Can't forget that.

Wow. That is some really well put-together stuff, and I'm a little embarrassed that I couldn't come up with anything close to it on my own. Guess it pays to study these sorts of stories inside and out. Thanks, mate!

For Thor, keep Donald Blake. He'd be very much a Superman/Clark Kent deal, with the shy , weak, nerdy Donald secretly transforming into the Mighty Thor. Maybe he isn't even really Thor, he just has the god's powers.

Jane Foster would be a Lois Lane type. She's Donald's assistant who thinks he's a nice man, but not the sort she'd be romantically into. She'd really like to get with someone like the super-manly Thor. She'd also notice how strange it is that Donald is never around when Thor shows up, but would never put two and two together.

Loki would be a low-rent Mxyzptlk with a dash of Silver Age Joker. Lots of illusions and mind control, but he can also summon various monsters. Mostly he alternates between annoying Thor and trying to amass wealth, and has a great fondness for jokes and pranks.

Doctor Octopus would be straight-up Bronze Age Lex Luthor with mechanical arms.

Green Goblin would be Steve Ditko's original idea - some random bank robber with a goblin motif.

Rhino stays the same.

Mysterio would be Silver Age Joker - a prankster/mob boss whose ban robberies rely on movie special effects.

edited 18th Jun '16 9:16:37 AM by VampireBuddha

I've been thinking maybe switching around some bits and pieces with Spider-Man and Ant-Man. The 60's cartoon and Japanese version both featured a planet of Spider-Men, so maybe we could give Spidey the extraterrestrial origin. Maybe a spaceship lands in the back garden with the suit and gizmos in, I dunno. Oh! Then Eddie Brock gets his hands on a black version of the suit, and becomes the Human Fly, later rebranded in the 90's as the edgier-looking Venom.

As for Ant-Man, maybe he could borrow from the Atom's mythology a little bit. We start off with our Hank Pym being a shorter-than-average joe with superhuman strength and maybe a silly antennae headset, and then later on, Scott Lang discovers a means to shrink himself down to the size of an ant.

There is actually a series called Just Imagine... Stan Lee Creating the DC Universe, which imagines Stan Lee...creating the DC universe. It's both good and bad at times.

edited 18th Jun '16 10:02:48 AM by alliterator

Yeah, like I say, I could borrow from that for the DC side. It's just that there's no 'official' equivalent for the Marvel side that I can find. Well, until this thread, that is.

I have to admit to being quite amused by this, since, if DC hadn't been dicks to Dave Cockrum, prompting him to leave the company and move to Marvel, Storm and Nightcrawler would actually have been members of the Legion, rather than the X-Men. The two teams actually have an oddly close connection thanks to cross-pollination between the two companies; longtime X-Men foes/allies (depending on whatever's happening with the Shi'ar at the moment) the Imperial Guard are actually cross-company expies of the Legion (thusly), and apparently the fight between Fang and Wolverine, where Wolverine wound up stealing the poor guy's costume since his had gotten shredded, was the result of fan desire to see a throwdown between Wolvie and Timber Wolf (Fang's DC counterpart).

There have actually been a surprising number of DC or Marvel [[Expy expies]]/Captain Ersatzes of the other company's characters; for example, Hank Henshaw, the Cyborg Superman, actually started off as the DC version of Reed Richards, in a one-shot Superman story that basically read as a dark parody of the Fantastic Four's origin.

Some of the Avengers have turned up in thin disguises in the pages of Justice League International- Wandjina, Silver Sorceress and Bluejay are pretty obviously Thor, Scarlet Witch, and... okay, less obvious for Bluejay. Yellowjacket, maybe?

... heh. And I've heard it said that if you want to see what Spider-Man would be like if DC had created him, just watch Batman Beyond for a pretty good idea.

Honestly, if DC created the Marvel heroes, it'd be... odd. There'd be a lot more sidekicks running around (I do like the idea of Miles Morales as Peter Parker's sidekick), many, if not most, of the 'classic' villains would be gimmick first, personality later (if ever), Wolverine and the Punisher would be niche heroes with limited appeal (or maybe outright villains), Dr. Strange... would probably be basically the same >.>... I don't think that Iron Man would have gotten his own title, or at least not for long; for whatever odd reason, armoured heroes simply don't have any real staying power in DC.

Huh. Thinking about it, the major characters that would probably go through the biggest changes in a Created by Marvel/Created by DC would be Gi/Ant Man and the Wasp. I can't shake the feeling that Silver Age DC would be a friendlier place to the Pyms than Marvel was, and Ant Man could actually get a rogues' gallery that wasn't... well, Egghead. Or himself.

My spin on Ant Man DC would be thusly;

Concerned by the increasing number of giant monkey monster attacks, brilliant scientist Henry 'Hank' Pym decided to find a way to combat them on their own ground. With his lovely young assistant, Janet Van Dyne, he secluded himself in his hidden laboratory to experiment with exotic compounds and unlock the secrets of radiation.

After tireless research, the two managed to isolate a spectacular new particle, named in the scientist's honour; the Pym Particle! Able to allow human beings to alter their size at will, the Pym Particle allows Hank Pym to become the mighty Giant Man, and Janet Van Dyne to become the winsome Wasp.

Together, the two battle the terrible monsters that plague our world, and even stranger menaces from beyond the stars!

... er, anyhow... apparently I went full Golden Age radio-announcer for a moment there >.>

Ant Man would actually be a later refinement of Giant Man, since Hank would realize that human-sized adversaries could defeat him simply by entering a building. Since he couldn't just smash a civilian structure down over their heads, he needed some other edge, as armed gangsters would be able to dispose of an unpowered scientist, not matter how fit he might be.

At the Wasp's suggestion, he shrank himself down- 'Ant Man' was mostly just serendipity at first, since it was close to his original moniker, and matched his partner's insect theme. The ant-control aspect would actually be a later addition, a gift from a grateful alien the pair saved.

The Wasp would be a somewhat more active part of his research in this version, and in their hero guises, she would originally act as his spotter and as a distraction for the giant monsters. Her 'stingers' would be flash grenades, originally, upgrading to laser-like beams within a few issues when she needed to do brain surgery on an Androcles' Lion-type kaiju who was maddened by an inflammation of the brain, rather than malicious.

She'd be almost entirely a tech hero to start with- the wasp 'wings' would actually be steering vanes on a jetpack, and her stingers would be generated by her gloves (or, in the case of the original grenades, carried on her belt and a bandolier). Eventually, she'd be altered by aliens (possibly the same ones that gave the ant-control helmet?) to have innate powers.

Ant Man would likely have a 'hidden laboratory' (the Anthill?), maybe shrunk down to be better hidden, complete with a 'zoo' of tiny monsters that he'd defeated.

edited 18th Jun '16 4:56:56 PM by TeChameleon

This is what I get for not checking the forums all day. Well, time to reply

x5 I like the whole Superman take on Thor, fits him a lot considering the way he is portrayed in the comics. I honestly was trying to avoid that seeing how both Spider-Man and Hulk have shades of that in what I imagined they will be like in their "DC" title.

Also, nice start with the Spider-Man villains. The only thing I came up with them so far is rather generic villain of the week who just shows up. A lot of DC rogue galleries tend to that.

x4 Yeah, both Spider-Man and Ant-Man can be aliens; a lot of DC Heroes seem to be alien immigrants who fight crime on earth (Superman, Hawkman, Martian Manhunter).

Not really a fan of having the Ant-Man character be a straight up copy-paste of the Atom, especially with the science hero Hank becoming Al Pratt Atom (who is just a masked vigilante type character). I think making him a tiny alien who uses size changing technology seems more fitting and out there for a character like him.

Yeah, Marvel and DC love to make Captain Ersatz of their rivals. Marvel did it a lot with their properties (Squadron Supreme and the Shi'ar Empire). DC does it from time to time too (Hank Henshaw's origin and that Avengers like team in that Batman/Superman story).

And yeah, if Ant-Man was in DC his Rogue Gallery would be highlight. His villains include Egghead, Whirlwind, Black Knight, Porcupine, Scarlett Beetle, the Voice, El Toro, Madame X and Ultron (who is mostly seen as an Avengers villain than a Hank Pym). In the DC they will certainly be treated as a bigger threat than they are now.

In fact, let's see how these villains will do in the take of Ant-Man I thought up (your take is pretty cool though, especially the reversal of Ant-Man being an extension of Giant-Man).

• Egghead: He will be the mad scientist character on the same level as Lex Luthor. So no changes compare to last time.
• Whirlwind: Like Egghead, not much change as he was already a recurring threat for Ant-Man.
• Black Knight: Ditto for the Black Knight; though he can be changed into a time displaced knight instead of the whole tech bashed villain he is.
• Porcupine: Again not much change since he is the perfect rogue gallery like villain you would see in DC
• Scarlet Beetle: Tying into this Ant-Man alien origin, the Scarlet Beetles can be the rival race to Hank's homeworld and be the key alien threat that attacks this "DC" universe.
• El Toro: Instead of being some Cuban in a bull mask, this guy can be a Minotaur theme super villain who leads a criminal empire.
• The Voice: He is basically a mind controlling villain, so I guess no changes (save for becoming a bigger threat than his one off appearance).
• Madame X: Amusingly being a precursor to both Black Widow and Mystique, I think she would make an interesting recurring female villain. She would most likely have her communist characteristic tone down and become more of a criminal mastermind who can take on many identities to fool her victims (think Chameleon, but can be a girl and boy).
• Ultron: Make him like Braniac from Superman TAS. He was originally Hank's invention for the purpose of collecting information on his homeworld. But then he gains self awareness and develops new programming of . . . well I think you get if you remember how Braniac is portrayed in that show