A Single Unified LGBT Character Thread

Yes there needs to be more LGBT+ characters in sci-fi or fantasy. I've never really wrote any LGBT+ characters before I mean all my characters are implicitly aroace in a way (I don't generally write sex or romance or even desire for either even though I experience the first, I know that tends to get read as straight) but it's not stated so I don't think it counts

edited 2nd Apr '16 1:05:48 PM by phantom1

EDIT: This post has been deleted due to retroactive clarification from the person I was replying to.

edited 2nd Apr '16 4:42:00 PM by SnowyFoxes

Oh, I don't think I modified my clauses properly. But since you've quoted it, my mistake is preserved forever anyways. Whoops.

I see storylines that regard alternative sexualities only in terms of how much society hates them or wants to pretend they don't exist in published and mass media, where it's obvious that the writer(s) didn't bother to research how sexuality and gender affects a single person. Some writers who don't have much personal experience with alternative sexuality/gender yet want to try writing an admirable character with that anyways may only see two options for writing such characters- as annoying caricatures, or as angsty social pariahs. Even writers of speculative fiction and fiction that takes place in another world do this, Limyaael ranted about it over a decade ago.

I used to think that way about writing any character who wasn't a straight white male until a few years ago. I thought if I wrote a woman who didn't play into stereotypes, but was neither a raging, bad-side-of-Tumblr level activist, nor hasn't been completely broken by rampant sexism, I was being a horrible, insensitive, patriarchy-pandering shitlord. If I wrote a gay man who wasn't Tyler Oakley/Christian Siriano grade levels of camp, but hadn't been beaten into the ground by society nor existed to be a same-sex marriage rights activist, that would also make me a horrible, homophobic shitbag because to not make demonization of homophobia the sole reason for an LGBT character was pretending the very real problems a lot of them have to deal with didn't exist.

All I'm saying is that if you're like how I was and still am to an extent, in that you're terrified of hurting LGBT folks by ignoring their struggles yet aren't personally interested in making that the star of the plot, there are ways to acknowledge how being LGBT can suck sometimes without going to either extreme. Rule 0 of writing characters of any demographic is to make them people first who are diverse in personality. Not enough writers realize this.

As my personal experience with LGBT individuals is very limited and I don't really like most stories that make LGBT issues the star of the plot, I'm gonna peace out of this thread.

edited 2nd Apr '16 3:31:21 PM by CrystalGlacia

Holy crap, I didn't know those blog entries were that old.

This topic reminds me.

I'm a straight male who also happens to be a Christian (the tolerant kind, that is). I don't have problem with LGBT characters...but I don't write them anyway because the stories I work on typically involves medieval European fantasy, and you know, Middle Ages...wasn't very kind on LGBT people. XP

To an extent but I want to find the Humon comic that kind of gets into that but also kind of not, it had a monk, like it was weird from a modern perspective, but not necessarily how we would perceive it. You could do some research on how it played out in monasteries which is better than one comic.

edited 2nd Apr '16 4:45:38 PM by phantom1

If it's fantasy...don't bring up reality.

My dude.

And while we're at it let me just add this; if your story have things like dragons, fairies, mermaids, etc, you can throw "realisim" right out the window. This isn't just about having LGBT+ characters in medieval Europe it's about having diverse characters in general btw.

EDIT: I am getting ninja'd at every dang corner today.

I see this kind of reasoning a lot and I still don't understand it.

Firstly, the extreme oppression of a class doesn't mean that individuals belonging to it simply do not exist. They may not exist in the public eye, but they're out there. Gay people didn't suddenly spring into existence when LGBT rights became a A Thing in politics.

Secondly, you're writing fantasy. If fantasy and sci-fi works can have elves, dwarves, fairies, flying cars, space colonies, and an endless list of other things that don't exist at all in real life, why not LGBT characters?

I also vaguely remember reading something about how the Middle Ages used different terms and concepts to describe sexuality, so this conversation might be kind of anachronistic anyway, but don't quote me on that.

edited 2nd Apr '16 4:55:16 PM by SnowyFoxes

Well, as for me, I'm writing fairly low fantasy that (at least, on planning stage) tries to stay pretty close to how actual Medieval European society worked, and there's actually no inhuman beings such as elves, dwarves, and whathaveyou. XP

You're so right, tho.

I recently got into a discussion with a person (no doubt a cishet dude) who was saying that being a trans character in a fantasy roleplaying game like D&D or Pathfinder would be (inherently) irrelevant and/or "unrealistic". I challenged them on it, but their response was very circular; they kept saying they didn't like having "modern morality" in their medieval settings, as if being non-cis or non-hetero is ahistorical (specifically to Europe) and an issue of "morals".

There were still non-hetero, non-cis people in medieval Europe. So, treating them like fictional creatures isn't exactly a great way to go, just saying.

edited 2nd Apr '16 5:11:17 PM by nekomoon14

But if you're still writing SOME form of fantasy, why don't you just...Memer is better at this then I am lol.

All I'm going to say is this; recently there has been some REALLY nasty treatment to LGBT+ characters, especially lesbians (see: the 100, the walking dead), so you need to be VERY careful with how you treat them.

Also, this .

edited 2nd Apr '16 5:11:51 PM by Masterofchaos

Who said anything about LGBT people not existing at all? I just said that the society heavily frowned upon them, what with sodomy being something punishable by death and all.

Why don't I what?

edited 2nd Apr '16 5:14:33 PM by dRoy

^ She calls me Memer, it's an inside joke, sorry for the confusion.

Since you said "I don't write them anyway" it heavily implied, to me, that you are not acknowledging their existence.

edited 2nd Apr '16 5:16:56 PM by SnowyFoxes

That's some bizarre line of reasoning, but okay.

How so?

You said "I don't write LGBT characters because this time period treated them very badly."

I didn't see anywhere else that could go, so maybe you could expand on it and clarify.

edited 2nd Apr '16 5:34:14 PM by SnowyFoxes

As a bisexual man, I say let people write whatever they want. If they dont want any LGBT people in their story, let them. Instead of more/less diversity,why not just "As much diversity as the author wants"?

^ I'm not sure if you're remarking on the current conversation or the entire concept of this thread, but I, personally, will critique/ ask for clarification on any writing decision that doesn't make sense to me, whether or not it involves questions of diversity and representation. In this case it just happens to be dRoy's reasoning for not writing LGBT characters, and I am still interested in having a discussion with him about that.

edited 2nd Apr '16 6:18:45 PM by SnowyFoxes

I am just giving my two cents on the thread topic in general.

I think dRoy says LGBT+ characters won't happen because they'd be punished in-setting, so no one would be 'out', I guess. I'd still think they would exist, maybe do their thing in secret?

Overall, there's that big discussion on diversity in stories. My stance is that you have the right to have whatever characters you want. Just treat characters who are unlike you respectfully and carefully.

In defense of The Walking Dead, Denise being killed off was in the comics. Denise's role was originally a man—whose name alludes me. He died the same way she did. Also, plenty of characters before her have been killed off. It's an Anyone Can Die setting. I'm sorry, but lesbians aren't canonically immune from bad people out in a post-apocalyptic world. The fact that the episode's airing was near to The 100's own lesbian killing was er... Unfortunate, that I can understand.

That's really the simple truth of it all.

Time to get...serious. -dramatic music-

The problem with what happened with Denise and Lexa, though, is that in both of their shows, you have straight characters that survive all kind of things (Jasper in the 100 got a SPEAR THROUGH HIS CHEST but he lived). Meanwhile, anyone that fits in a marginalized group (be that they are LGBT or a character or color or both) get killed off much more than their non marginalized counterpart. That's why people were angry when Denise died. When Lexa died. When Delphine died in Orphan Black.

So the whole "no one is immune" statement is null and void when there's a growing (and STILL growing—just look at how BIG the Live-Action TV section of Bury Your Gays is getting) pattern of LGBT characters getting killed more than their straight counterparts.

Was that too ranty? I'm so sorry if it was too ranty; this topic just really hits too close to home.

edited 2nd Apr '16 7:32:53 PM by Masterofchaos

D-Did I scare everyone off?

I'm sorry. D:

I've always wondered about this.

I'm sure it's possible to make the LGBT issues part of the character (like a romance subplot) without consuming the character entirely, but I'm not sure how. The same way hetero romance subplots don't consume their characters entirely, maybe?

How should the discrimination be portrayed? Strangers walking away from the gay couple holding hands? Friends leaving when they 'come out' to them? Office drama and the threat of getting fired for being LGBT?

There is no hard and fast answer. The two most important factors that I can think of, off the top of my head, are the focus of the story and where it takes place. If I'm reading about a gay couple living in a progressive city, they probably experience fewer mundane instances of homophobia than a gay couple living in the conservative-leaning suburb that I grew up in. And if it's a plot-driven story rather than a character-driven one, an LGBT identity might not be as prominent of a character feature. The best thing you can do for things that require a delicate balance is to write it out so people can judge how it plays into the work as a whole.

edited 2nd Apr '16 11:13:18 PM by SnowyFoxes

Can we link blogs and articles here? Cause I have a few I highly recommend.

Why not? :o