Follow TV Tropes

Following

Religious but not too religious

Go To

SmokingBun from New Delhi Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Brony
#1: Mar 1st 2016 at 10:01:19 AM

So I am writing a Muslim character (yeah real minefield I'm stepping through) but one who is fairly atypical. I want to portray it all in a positive light without falling into Magical Black Man territory.

The character himself is a Jason Bourne archetype and while I know there are no scenes of Jason sitting in a church praying to Jesus before going on a vengeful rampage for answers, I still want to make religion one of my character's traits.

Should I even bother though? Will it get in the way of everything else? I sort of wanted to use him as a mouthpiece for how society has changed so much that we can't rely on dusty old tomes anymore to teach us morals. Conversely there's some genuine good teachings that everyone should follow (i.e. give alms to the poor and such.)

Also, I wanted the character to smoke pot, that's how he unwinds or relaxes and "Things bad-asses do when not on missions" is kind of a thing in my book. Or is that going into cringe-worthy/edge-lord territory?

One or two twists in a story is fine, Shyamlan-esque even. But please don't turn the poor thing into a Twizzler!
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#2: Mar 1st 2016 at 11:13:30 AM

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a Jason Bourne spy type being Muslim and it shouldn't get in the way of anything.

Upon first glance I'd say you already ran into a possible problem. You say you want this character to be portrayed positively in a way that doesn't offend and is no magical negro. Fair enough. Then you say this character is supposed to be a mouthpiece for the view of "we can't rely in old tomes to dictate our actions", which will make pretty difficult for you to portray a Muslim character truly respectfully if you take the stance his muslimness is a outdated and obsolete worldview that has no place in modern society and should be largely discarded. It'd be a bit like trying to portray a proud law-abiding police officer positively while simultaneously taking the view that all professional law enforcement is a problem and should be abolished. It's possible to do it, but it'll inevitably end up contradicting itself in some way. Chiefly in that the portrayal gets confusing, it makes it sound as if he's a good person in spite of being a Muslim, rather than just a good Muslim person. So you can be a good Muslim person while simultaneously the entire Muslim faith is useless. It comes across as back-handed compliment.

About pot, well, it depends on the character you're trying to portray. You've told us nothing except that he's some sort of operative who is also Muslims. Operatives are a diverse group, and so are Muslims, so it's hard to give a definitive answer. In a broad statement, most Muslim denominations prohibit the use of intoxicants like beer, drugs and presumably pot, so the character likely would not use it. But like I said, I'm sure some Muslim denominations view it differently, and the character himself could Rules Lawyer his way out of that rule if he wants. Like I said, broad statement.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
DeMarquis Since: Feb, 2010
#3: Mar 1st 2016 at 11:29:48 AM

Speaking as an non-Muslim author who has written Muslim characters in my fiction, I would say go for it. Be sure to share your work with some RL Muslim beta-readers who can correct you if you make any major mistakes. Just remember that Islam contains a billion or more people, who are just as diverse and varied in their values, behaviors and life-style choices as any other similar sized population of humans. If you want a Muslim action hero who is devote yet cosmopolitan and moderate in his/her religious views, there is absolutely nothing "unrealistic" about that. Just remember that no character you ever write "represents" anyone- treat he or she as a unique individual, in-story, and you probably wont go too far wrong. If you are worried about unfortunate implications, then include several Muslim characters, each of whom is as unique and different from each other as the rest of the cast (this is what I did). Above all, dont let it stop you from telling a good story.

Good luck with your project.

edited 1st Mar '16 11:30:23 AM by DeMarquis

SmokingBun from New Delhi Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Brony
#4: Mar 1st 2016 at 12:11:35 PM

@Gaon

Well I suppose I could go for the character questioning his own faith or in the process of such a thing since having seen so much of the world he would have observed so many conflicting viewpoints. What I wanted to portray was that there is a lot of misinformation going around. He would describe how many of the Muslim nations or communities are being exploited by the ruling clergy (Saudi Arabia is a big example). I would have him joke about how everyone gets up in arms about pork (he doesn't consume pork but sees nothing wrong with those who do) but forget stuff like giving alms to the poor.

The old tomes thing was more of a comment on how the books were written in ancient times (the very literal word of god as written by some scholar who received visions.) and modern society would be practically alien (consider this, what does Islam say about Mechanical Augmentation which plays a part in my story), so some of the stuff has become a bit outdated (Sodomy and Masturbation being sinful for instance). He's actually scholarly about it and explains how many of the stuff came out due to a nomadic culture (although I wonder if that would make him spiritual rather than full on religious.)

As far as Marijuana or pot is concerned, was going to make it a guilty pleasure for him. In combat situations he used to get tense and become very tightly wound. It got to a point where he couldn't relax and a "safe" environment would render him paranoid. A friend introduces him to it and he finds it very helpful in calming himself or turning himself off. He explains that pot is wonderful and far safer than stuff like nicotine and he jokes about having a word with god about it when (and if) he gets into heaven.

The thing is, the character ultimately says that he's not Muslim purely due to a belief in a higher power but rather wants to spread the good word and teach folk about the good, moral stuff within the Koran since people nowadays think the Koran is all about killing infidels and nothing else.

I even considered making the character gay but then Homosexual Pot Smoking Muslim sounds like the worst kind of oxymoron or a case of "trying way too hard". That's not to say there are no gay people in Pakistan who struggle with this sort of thing. But as you said, we have everything from Fundamentalists to Casual Believers in all religions, so my character would have his own little niche.

@De Marquis

Thanks for your advice. As far as diversity of Muslim beliefs is considered, there are indeed a couple of other Muslim characters who are a bit more orthodox in their beliefs and would find my character unusual to stay the least.

edited 2nd Mar '16 6:32:04 AM by SmokingBun

One or two twists in a story is fine, Shyamlan-esque even. But please don't turn the poor thing into a Twizzler!
Xenovista Wizard of the Ebon-Ivory Tower from The Outer Dark Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Wizard of the Ebon-Ivory Tower
#5: Mar 29th 2016 at 8:23:57 PM

I'd start with reading through the Koran, if only to get a first impression of the religion.

I've found that as an atheist who used to be religious it can be hard to get back into that "spiritual" mind set when writing characters who are not atheists.

THE KEY OF JOY IS DISOBEDIENCE.
Sharur Showtime! from The Siege Alright Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
#6: Mar 31st 2016 at 8:26:28 PM

There is also the question how devout he is? Unless I'm completely misreading what you wrote(completely possibly, as I'm purposely BrainBleaching myself on TV Tropes at the moment, as I don't drink), he seems to be more RaisedMuslim than actually Muslim.

Most people who have religious beliefs may not define themselves solely by those central tenets, but many would classify and group themselves according to the central tenets they do or do not hold. (Note that including or excluding others based on their belief in the central tenets, or disagreeing on what those central tenets are, is an entirely different matter)

To use a Christian analogy that your character reminds me of, there are atheists, theists, deists, and other-ists, (e.g. Thomas Jefferson and Voltaire(the French one)) who hold Jesus as a moral teacher, but not a theological one, and do not consider themselves Christians, due to not believing him to be God and Savior, which is generally held to be a tenet of Christianity.

Also what nationality is he? (By which I mean citizenship/working for as a spy, rather than ethnicity). I would imagine that an American or European Muslim would have a different mindset, behavior, background, etc. from a Pakistani Muslim, to use the example you used, who in turn would be different from a Jordanian Muslim, or a Palestinian Muslim, or a Egyptian Muslim, or an Indonesian Muslim.

edited 31st Mar '16 8:56:17 PM by Sharur

Nihil assumpseris, sed omnia resolvere!
SmokingBun from New Delhi Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Brony
#7: Apr 2nd 2016 at 4:35:01 PM

@Xenovista

I agree with you. Writing a religious character can be hard when y mindset is basically, "Ugh.. why do people believe in such arbitrary rules."

But like I said, my character is conflicted because off the all the crazy shut he's seen and done. He hears the different viewpoints and then watches the barbarism unfold in the Middle East and is all, "Yeah, these guys are not true Muslim."

@Sharur

Well he certainly can't be full on Fundamentalist or orthodox because of his line of work. He's a spy and an intelligence agent who's an expert at putting on various personalities and earning truth of his targets with subtle manipulation. He used to be part of Government Intelligence but then defected and is now a freelance spy for hire who offers his services (and stolen intelligence) to the highest bidder. Somewhat loose morals though he does have limits and stuff that set pisses him off.

To answer your second question he's a Pakistan national and was Raised Muslim. His family is pretty orthodox but being well off/rich exposed him to more western schools of thought lets say. He joined the army to sort of "get away" from everything and was subsequently made into an ISI (Pakistani Intelligence) agent. It was there that he met his lover with whom he had a very secret relationship since coming out could get them killed.

I realize he wouldn't care about the rules against alcohol or pork but I would have him abstain unless absolutely integral to the job purely out of respect for his culture. He is pretty charitable though and often donates his ill gotten gains to various charities under pseudonyms. So say he hacks a corrupt politician's bank account, kills him and transfers the money to Red Cross.

edited 2nd Apr '16 4:36:16 PM by SmokingBun

One or two twists in a story is fine, Shyamlan-esque even. But please don't turn the poor thing into a Twizzler!
Add Post

Total posts: 7
Top