Jessica Jones

Malcolm isn't ruined. If anything, he's the only character who came out of this season unscathed. We saw him develop investigative skills, finally grow a spine and now he's got a great job and is no longer under the thumbs of two of the most toxic people in the universe.

When did Luke Cage do a "comic book fantasies r dumb" thing?

The headband he had on when he escaped from the facility where he got his powers; it was a throwback to his Power Man costume, but Luke immediately takes it off and says he looks like a damned fool.

It's funny because I used to hate the comic book designs and thought Movie Superheroes Wear Black was a much better direction. That opinion changed with time. Except for Daredevil's because of the stupid "DD" on the front, and yet he's the only person in the Netflixverse to actually wear a costume.

edited 11th May '18 11:50:13 AM by Soble

I mean, Luke Cage is the most lighthearted out of all of the Marvel Netflix shows. That one moment isn't really that bad.

It's not the same scathing critique or sarcasm that Jess and Wolvy offered, but it's still knocking his iconic look (which was admittedly kind of silly) They always do little references to the comic book aesthetic and then turn around and go, "But wait, that looks dumb."

I guess it's not really bad but I factor it in anyway. I don't know what part of the concept of superhuman vigilantes being tolerated by local law enforcement isn't kind of dum-

-looks around-

-zips mouth-

edited 11th May '18 11:53:42 AM by Soble

Plus comic Luke ditched the head band a long time ago so I think he'd agree with t.v Luke's opinion anyway.

Edited by windleopard on Jan 7th 2019 at 7:31:46 AM

Jessica and Luke both basically have civilian clothes as their "costumes" in modern comics

And Luke did look like a damn fool. Part of moving forward is admitting that fashion in the 70s could get bad

The Jewel outfit isn't even Jessica's iconic look because she's introduced with her costume days far in her past

edited 11th May '18 12:04:38 PM by Bocaj

Then I guess I have a thing for colored spandex that modern comics don't.

edited 11th May '18 11:58:47 AM by Soble

Malcolm got ruined for me because the first season presented him as a person with ideals who was ruined by Killgrave, and was now struggling to live by those ideals again. In the second season they suggest that he never actually believed in those ideals in the first place but was actually trying to his some expectation mark his parents set for him. And I think that made him way, way less interesting.

To clarify, I could have lived with him using his former girl-friend and trying to built his own career if it had been portrayed as him struggling with his own ideals while doing so, if the realities of life had ruined his beliefs. But this isn't what happens, he just throws them overboard because it turns out, he never really believed in them in the first place.

edited 11th May '18 12:01:36 PM by Swanpride

I saw no evidence he never believed in them.

I’d argue that, with the exception of Spider-Man (which wasn’t out at the time), Luke Cage is the most traditional and idealistic piece of superhero media in the MCU, with very classic superhero concepts and themes.

I don’t think the dog at his original costume really undercuts that.

edited 11th May '18 12:58:50 PM by KnownUnknown

I thought Jessica Jones season 2 was just as great as season 1, just to give a second opinion.

I don't think it was AS good as I felt it had pacing and tension problems as well as having less of an identity. S1 was all about consent, rape, and every day misogny and other related things, where S2 just felt.. a bit less focused and I couldn't tell what the core concept or message might be. Abusive Family? Adiction? Betrayal? There are ways to connect these together into a more singular theme, but I don't think S2 hit it.

You could argue that Season 2 was about balancing selfish desires with selfless aims, and reconciling the fact that no matter what you do you're always going to have both within you. It's the only bit of mainstream media I've seen in a while (since Peanuts, really) to have it as a central point that love is inherently both selfless and selfish in nature.

• Trish's arc is about her denial that her selfless actions are actually selfishly motivated, and thus she is unable to move past it and grow as a person no matter what she does. She does want to help others, but she refuses to acknowledge how much she's doing it to satisfy herself and thus sabotages her own actions and all her relationships.
• Jessica's arc is about how because she always has to be the selfless one, she resents that she can't be selfish even when she desperately wants to be, and in the end she falls so deeply into that desperation that she nearly ruins her life. Trish stops her in the worst way possible, and the experience leaves her broken.
• Jessica's mother is an entirely selfish person, possessive and controlling even in the way she relates to people she legitimately cares about, and is something of The Corruptor to Jessica in that regard. She doesn't realize she's doing it, not really, and doesn't see anything wrong with the way she is, but it colors all her actions and conflicts with the other characters.
• Malcolm's arc is about him actually coming to terms with the difference between the two, and the reason he ends so much better than the others is that by the end he's the only one who fully accepts the fact that you have to be selfish sometimes in order to live to be selfless, and vice versa.

edited 11th May '18 5:45:51 PM by KnownUnknown

Season 2 was about mental illness, ableism, and family.

Mind, I didn't hate Season 2 but I find myself having less and less positive things to say about it as time goes on. Part of it for me is that frankly I didn't find it as memorable. I have my complaints about the season, granted, but...honestly I don't know. I think personally for me I just found it kind of slow and drab with a lot of the darker stuff becoming offputting because there wasn't enough lightness to balance it out. Season 1 was dark but damn, even Killgrave could be darkly humorous in a kind of fucked up way. The stuff with Hogarth also kind of felt like unnecessary padding, and I'm still not sold on her as a character. And uh, yeah, gonna join in that I wan't as hot on Trish and the more I think about her arc, the more I didn't really like it. I'm not enraged by it, I thought it was a genuinely good idea on paper (and I like Known Unknown's analysis a few posts up about it) but I feel like the execution was mixed. Maybe if I rewatch it I'll see if my opinion changes but I dunno when that'll be.

There were good things, don't get me wrong. I thought it was a rare comic book-y moment of silliness for the show to have the Whizzer of all characters there and I was pleasantly humored. The flashback episode (I think it was Episode 7 of the season?) is my favorite episode of the entire season, and I really liked Ritter's acting in it. Jessica's mom is a great character who was legitimately scary yet I felt sympathy towards her. Malcolm was pretty good even though he was shafted slightly. I liked the themes a good bit. And hell, call me a sucker but I liked how it ended with Jessica basically getting a new family with her new boyfriend and his son. I like when Jessica gets her softer side shown. I really hope this sticks because if something happens to them come Season 3, I'm gonna be pissed.

And I hope that Jessica finds and apartment at a place which has no neighbours at all! I hated the neighbour, too. He didn't work at all for me.

Which neighbor?

To be frank, at this point all of them, including Malcolm.

Lets be fair.

Jessica doesn't need her neighbours to be assholes to find a reason to hate them.

You really want Jessica to move out and throw away literally the two people left in the world who want her around?

The only neighbors I remember being annoying weren't even in the second season.

I'd say that a lot of the dislike for Trish's actions in season 2 is from people not thinking about Trish personally and just framing her as the catalyst of her reactions. For instance, the "Cray Cray" episode: Jessica’s angry about the pop star thing out of concern. She's not angry because she thinks it’s superficial or dumb, even if she does insult "I Want Your Cray Cray" (let’s be real here, it’s like a top 40 nightmare on par with Rebecca Black's "Friday"), but because it’s dragging Trish back into the world they escaped her mom to get away from. She’s angry because Trish’s exposure to this level of fame is always hugely negative for her. And this level of fame is the direct reason for Trish's drug use. There’s benefit to looking at things in broader contexts.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/it-looks-like-jessica-jones-is-finally-trying-to-addres-1825959259

I'm happy for this. I'm glad they're actually addressing the problem here.

No, I am angry about the Cray Cray episodes because it ends with Jessica sending Trish back to her abuser, and it directly contradicts season 1 in which was established that Jessica ensured to keep Trish away from her mother since they broke free of her.