Jessica Jones

Because she totally didn't torture anyone.

She intimidated people, but I am honestly trying to think any moment where she deliberately caused pain to someone to make them talk. The closest thing I can remember was when Simpson was doing it, and she berated and ultimately stopped him. And, now that I think about it, I think that was the last time she worked together with him.

Well, in the prequel comic, when Jess had to get money from a thug that Matt had beat up because she was hired by his baby mamas to do so, she remarked that she hadn't heard of the "Devil of Hell's Kitchen" but she appreciated that he beat said thug into a bloody pulp. So I don't know how averse she'd be to his methods.

Then again, I don't think Daredevil was beating him up to torture him for information. I think he was just beating him up because he escaped from jail. So I dunno.

There was the set-up she had with Kilgrave. Does that count?

You're forgetting the whole lock up Kilgrave in a room with a single bed and ankle deep water, running an electric current through the water, and playing a recording of a traumatic moment from his life. Doesn't matter that Kilgrave is evil, torture is torture.

edited 30th Nov '15 10:14:37 AM by stingerbrg

Jessica does come to the realization that it was shitty though and that she was doing it for the wrong reasons.

I find it hard to believe that a private eye wouldn't know about the Devil of Hell's Kitchen. Surely the chances are that she would be hired to investigate something he's tied to, if not directly him.

I'm happy to hear she turned them down on the grounds of her personal history as a super hero being... awful. It just seems odd that she wouldn't know about this guy. Being a privite eye she has to keep topical on local news.

And not to mention, torture rarely actually works. Either the person being tortured won't cough up, or they'll spit out whatever the torturer wants to hear just so they'll stop. There was actually a case in WWII where one side (can't remember which,) attempted to get information out of a couple of soldiers on the other, but rather than use torture, they instead took the soldiers out for a couple of hamburgers and treated them with dignity and respect. The soldiers then gave the other side the information they wanted completely voluntarily.

Granted, this is a tactic that likely wouldn't work 100% of the time, but it's better than beating the crap out of someone, both for ethical and practical reasons.

I don't take prequel comics very seriously to be honest.

Fair point, however, I will argue that is completely different from what Daredevil regularly did to people:For starter, most of what you mentioned is psychological torture which is awful on its own way, but its definitively different. Jessica doesn't seem to be fan of causing pain to people, but she also clearly doesn't mind tormenting them (also seem with Jeri's wife). As for the water, that situation isn't set up to be torture. It is a way to control Killgrave, which is much needed considering who he is. You can argue (as I would) that she misused it and took glee on seeing him suffer, but at no point she actually tortured him on cold blood. Furthermore, the fact it was Killgrave is important because it is something personal to Jessica, meaning she might have gone farther than she usually would given how much she hated him.

I am not trying to argue Jessica is a better person than Daredevil. But morality is not a 0 to 10 scale. She never actually physically tortured anyone and was, in fact, disgusted when she met someone who did. So it wouldn't be weird if she got angry at Daredevil's methods, even if she have arguably done worse stuff herself.

Definitively. Good thing JJ(the show) never portrayed torture in a positive light or remotely necessary. Even with Killgrave, it was ultimately useless. In DD the main character at last have a super power that let him know the information was reliable (or not), but it was still uncomfortable overall.

edited 30th Nov '15 12:47:24 PM by Heatth

At least in DD it's shown that all of his torture information is useless, as it can't be verified in a court of law. My main hope for season 2 is for Matt to put torture behind him.

Just wanted to say that y'all make excellent points.

I've rearranged my list of things I want to see, and 'Killgrave's tongue being ripped out' now sits beneath 'The Vision beating up Killgrave.'

Biological viruses wouldn't affect him, true

Unless he was playing along to feel like part of the group. Like the time he was drugged alongside the rest of the Avengers in the comic

By the way, I realized Kilgrave's angst about having to choose his words is pure BS. We see him overriding his own commands during the show. He probably had quite some time to give another order before the Noodle Incident guy managed to "screw himself".

To be fair, he might not have noticed. If after he said "go screw yourself" the guy just left, Kilgrave might not have thought of what he was leaving to do.

But, yeah, one of Kilgrave's tendencies to justify himself is to grab on every little thing that might portray him in a positive/sympathetic light and overplay it.

It does pique morbid curiosity though since he isn't always completely literal and clearly doesn't have to be.

Like, how was the order interpreted? Did he put screws into his body? Did he try to physically turn himself into a screw? Did he screw his body until he tore himself? Was it interpreted sexually?

The guy probably just started to masturbate and Kilgrave is bullshitting.

Regarding torture, Jessica dangled Wendy in front of a oncoming train (although she was drunk at the time) so she's hardly a saint compared to Daredevil.

edited 30th Nov '15 1:35:45 PM by PurpleDalek

He screwed stuff into his butt. Hence he got both done.

I don't think I found as many likable characters in JJ compared to DD.

DD: Foggy, Wesley, Karen, Owlsley, Claire, Ben Urich, Matt Murdock, the priest and Matt's dad too.

JJ: Ruben, Malcolm, Cage, Hope and Trish

I'm mixed on Jessica herself. I like her personality and her dynamic with Trish but I was so aggravated that she kept making everything worse and worse. It's realistic how bad her judgement can get. It's always unrealistic that the hero can always make 80-100% of the right choices but it also weighed down the story.

A 10 episode run would've been better than a 13 episode run imo.

Anyways Fisk was way more likable than Kilgrave but tbf Kilgrave is supposed to be super awful and because of that Kilgrave is scarier.

I liked the characters and plotting better in DD, but I liked the themes in JJ way more. It gets points for having an on-screen female couple especially for making them relevant in some way.

edited 30th Nov '15 1:41:56 PM by MadSkillz

Again, intimidation, not deliberate, calculated, pain. Hardly the same thing. Also again, I am not saying she is better or worse, but her actions are definitively not the same as Daredevil's.

I mind it less with Jessica, because she her actions are usually not planned. Matt goes all religious guilt and thinks for hours about right and wrong and still decides to do some really dark stuff.

Personally, Jessica's jerk and awfulness made her relateable to me. Maybe its because I've been through some of the things Jessica has been through or that I've met other people who have been through awful situations and, while it wasn't 'good' behavior, I understood the pain and cynicism behind her jackass behavior.

Jessica is probably a better person than Matt in the grand scheme of things. Though both of them seem to be improving at different rates.

Jessica is not personable, basic human interaction can trigger her, but she is conscious of this and limits her social interaction in responce.

Meanwhile Matt is manipulative, and for all the thought he puts into what's right, he still does shitty stuff anyway.

On regards of comparing Daredevil and Jessica Jones, I'd say they are more or less equal when it comes to good characters and fleshing them out (accounting for the fact Jessica has a very unfair headstart of three episodes), Daredevil has much tighter plotting and tone, as well as stronger character arcs for its protagonists and antagonists, Jessica Jones however has stronger themes.

In general, I would say Jessica Jones does not hold a candle to Daredevil. It's a pretty good show, but has miles to go until Daredevil.

I feel the exact opposite. I feel like Jessica Jones was leagues better than DD. DD felt like it kind of hit the usual beats I expected of it. Jessica Jones tried a lot of things that 90% of television would shy a way from and maybe 1% of television would do exceptionally well with and they were successful in those aspects.

Jessica Jones has a lot more that makes it unique and fresh and I think that made it a stronger product.

That's normal. DD's main antagonist is the Kingpin, one of Marvel's most famous villains, while JJ's main antagonist is, to put it bluntly, a rapist. You don't really have the same level of sophistication.

I think I prefer JJ because it feels more human than DD, plus it tackles more interesting topics than what is the usual for anti heroes. Don't take it wrong, DD is an amazing show, but the characters are less personable than Jess, Trish or Malcolm in my opinion. I would say that JJ is #2 and DD is #3 on my personal scale of favorite comic book TV shows, behind Flash.

edited 30th Nov '15 3:18:31 PM by Julep

I would say Jesisca Jones is, under some definitions, bolder and more ambitiuous, but at the same time I feel it succeeds a lot less than Daredevil does. It aims higher, but hits a lot lower.

But it is a pretty good show, and a second season might just make it great.

edited 30th Nov '15 3:32:44 PM by Gaon