Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi

The thing is, there was no benefit to dragging the reveal this long anyways. If she was Luke's daughter they should have probably just made that clear in the beginning.

I believe that TFA told us that answer the moment she found the Skywalker Lightsaber. We do not get a dialogue confirmation, but the visuals all tell us that Rey is connected to the Skywalkers and most specifically, Luke Skywalker. The clues were all there and the final scene seems to be the culmination of everything that TFA was building up to: Rey meeting (or reuniting with) Luke Skywalker.

And if TLJ reveals to us that yes, Luke Skywalker is Rey's father, we'll be like Leia at ROTJ. We somehow always knew the answer. It was right in front of us the whole time.

After all, there was supposed another reveal in TFA that was cut out because JJ Abrams felt that he could only get away with one, and Kasdan assured him that Viewers Are Geniuses to find out about the second one.

edited 20th Nov '17 7:25:06 PM by Shadao

That vision connects her more with Obi-Wan than Luke, I think. Obi-Wan spoke to her. All Luke did was show up for half a second as a hooded hobo.

but HOW?

I still find the idea that legacy of the Skywalkers hinges solely on who their most recently born child is (especially given that that child is, himself, a Black Sheep who isn't written nor acts in-universe as a member of the family) rather strange, especially given how much emphasis the sequel series gives on the things they have created which - themselves - cement their legacy: the Resistance, Leia possible returning to rally the Republic, Luke possibly returning to bring balance to the force yet agian, etc.

In fact, that TFA's main thematic focus is the Skywalker legacy, starring two characters who (apparently) aren't part of that legacy being drawn into it and experiencing it from the outside in, is imo one of the more poignant things about that film. If there's one thing the film nails, its the awed feeling of stepping in the shoes of greatness.

edited 20th Nov '17 7:41:38 PM by KnownUnknown

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

Rey could be a Skywalker and still be the daughter of some nobodies. If these films are supposed to ultimately be about the Skywalker family, then maybe they should have the guts to make it about family, not blood.

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Damn straight.

At the very least, we don't want to send a message to all the kids looking for role models in the films that the only way you can be a super cool person that saves the galaxy is to be lucky enough to share some chromosomes with someone powerful. We're past the days of attributing any real significance to royal lineage now; we might as well do away with the literary traditions that glamorize it.

edited 20th Nov '17 8:25:16 PM by EndlessSea

but HOW?

x4 Except she was called by Anakin's lightsaber. And Yoda can also be heard in the vision.

edited 20th Nov '17 8:24:58 PM by Karxrida

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?

Frank Oz and Ewan McGregor actually recorded completely new dialogue for that scene!

Ah! Obviously Rey is Yoda's daughter, then. :P (I would've mentioned both of them, but that's a mental image I don't want to touch with a ten-foot laser pole.)

I heard! I always love little touches and cameos like that. I really hope we get some Force Ghosts in the sequels!

edited 20th Nov '17 8:31:45 PM by EndlessSea

but HOW?

Wait what? I don't recall hearing Yoda in the vision. What did he say?

PSN ID: FateSeraph | Switch friendcode: SW-0145-8835-0610 Congratulations! She/They

Tell that to Aunt Petunia. The only way she'll ever be accepted to Hogwarts (a place she wants to go) is if she had magic blood in her veins. She did not and there's nothing she can do about it. That is the problem with sending a message to kids about anyone can be a super cool person... when space wizards are born with their powers. If you were born with no Force powers, too bad.

This is why Finn, Rose and Poe are better examples of being a "super cool person" that saves the galaxy than Rey. They are the common people. They have no superpowers. And yet, it is their desire to save the galaxy from evil that makes them heroes. Perhaps greater heroes than the Skywalkers. Muggles Do It Better.

Rey does not work because she was born with those superpowers, not earned them. Hence making her a Skywalker doesn't really ruin anything progressive at all.

You don't need to be a Jedi to save the galaxy. Just ask Han, Lando, Finn, Poe, Rose, Jyn and all the fighters of the Rebellion and Resistance. These are your "super cool" heroes that save the galaxy. Heck, many thought Luke vs Darth Vader and the Emperor in ROTJ was irrelevant in the outcome because the Rebellion would have destroyed the Death Star II anyways and won the Battle of Endor.

There is a positive message about everyday people saving the day. You just need to look at the right places.

edited 20th Nov '17 9:08:47 PM by Shadao

The problem there is that Finn and Rose and Poe aren't the face of the sequel trilogy. Rey is. Rey is the one that has space magic. Rey is the one that gets to train with Luke, the main character of the OT and a heroic archetype so iconic that he's the literal poster boy of this very wiki's page on The Hero. The fact that we're having this conversation about her in the first place only proves how important we perceive her to be- one of the most common arguments in favor of her being a Skywalker is that she's too important to not be a Skywalker in a franchise following the Skywalker legacy. Rey is the hero that the sequels care about the most, and her being a Skywalker takes her story from "outsider proves herself worthy of taking up a hero's legacy" to "father gives his shit to his kid, same old, same old". You put in that blood relation and it hangs over the character like the proverbial Sword of Damocles, permanently coloring her story. At least Return of the Jedi was smart enough to mix things up a bit with Vader and Luke and play that bond up as an actual parental bond rather than as an excuse to make Luke more inherently speshul. The sequels seem to be all about inheriting past glories, so I doubt tying Rey and Luke together by blood would do the same.

Also, I have no clue why you're bringing Rose up when we literally know nothing about her other than her name and occupation.

but HOW?

Thus disqualifying her to be "Anyone can be a hero" message you are trying to send. The fact that her life mirrors Luke so eerily also makes Random seem to be an Ass Pull rather than anything genuine. She's not original, that I can tell you. She follows the same steps as any other Skywalker and to make her unrelated would make the entire story a comedy. Instead of hunting down Skywalker descendants, Snoke should just destroy every desert planet in the galaxy because that's where all the heroes seem to come from.

What do you expect from a family's gift? Rewards? No, it's always burden and pressure. It's a relatable subject that everyone felt from time to time. Rey is not interested in inheriting past glories or legacies. She is interested in getting a family. But there's always a catch to desires. If she is a Skywalker, then she gets a family but it would be a broken. And then she would realize that she inherited a legacy she did not expect to inherit along with the burdens that come with it. Wouldn't it be more powerful if Rey realizes that trying to live up to that high legacy doesn't define who she is? And thus she decides to take her own path despite being a Skywalker. That would be in contrast to Kylo Ren.

And really, who isn't to say that Rey and Luke wouldn't have an actual parental bond. They are described as the beating heart of the story.

Her actress describes her as a nobody of nobodies. She is not special in any sort of way, but she can be a hero of the galaxy all the same. You don't need to send a message of a nobody saving the day to be plastered on the front poster of the Skywalker Saga. Just show it in the movie itself or do a spin-off.

edited 20th Nov '17 11:02:46 PM by Shadao

You could argue that despite the Arturian legends (which I'm not super read up on, so forgive my broad generalizations) being centered around King Arthur and how great he is - his legacy is still ultimately mired by Mordred, who defeats him. One's ancestry doesn't automatically entitle them to being The Hero. Kylo is very much the Mordred to Han/Leia/Luke's Arthur - the unfortunately dark and treacherous end to a family that is its own undoing - and Star Wars has always payed homage to classical heroic mythos - even the dark side (heh) of them.

Making Rey a nobody who's just powerful in the force would be just as inspiring, representing a new, unrelated generation toppling the failed Skywalker one that - for all the strength of its fathers failed because of its son. As nice as it might be to adhere to the traditional heroic cliches of Rey redeeming the family's fall from grace, it'd be just as nice to see her simply move on from them and be her own thing and get out from under the shadow cast by Anakin and Luke.

I guess the only argument I ever see for Rey being a Skywalker is "the story's about them," but her not being one doesn't invalidate that any. The story's still about them - it's just about how some dynasties, however strong, can still fall - and it's okay if someone new and more promising can replace and honor them.

"A king has no friends. Only subjects and enemies."

That may be so, but it goes against George Lucas's idea of family and generations. He always believe that having children to continue the next generation and it's clear that he has no intention of ending Star Wars on a downer note. While he's no longer in charge, his influence can still be felt and I believe that Kathleen Kennedy is well aware of Lucas's dreams.

"And obviously there are two sides to the redeemer motif in the Star Wars films. Ultimately Vader is redeemed by his children and especially by having children. Because that's what life is all about—procreating and raising children, and it should bring out the best of you."

—George Lucas

And one is not entitled to follow the path of the Jedi. There is something poetic about Rey being a Skywalker yet not taking the Jedi path that her father took. It's a perfect foil to Kylo Ren, who is obsessed with his grandfather's legacy that he doesn't become his own person. Rey just wants her family. If Rey is unrelated, she's just following someone else's legacy and not her own. She will never get out of the shadows of Anakin or Luke even if unrelated because she is still training under them (and has a backstory similar to them). But if she's a Skywalker, then her backstory is an understandable motif and a not a copy of Luke and Anakin. All Skywalker tropes are rightfully hers and not simply copying them off because LFL was creatively bankrupted. And she would be able to step out of her family's shadow by making her own choices because accept she's a Skywalker and not a clone of Skywalker.

If her backstory was told and confirmed that she's not related; if all of her Skywalker tropes were subverted (she's a terrible pilot, not good with droids, and really bad at the Force), then I can see the case for Rey Random. But it's not.

It's more than just it's about them. It's also about the family relations they have. How legacy is burdened upon them. And that ultimately, what decides your fate is not your lineage but your choices. You can have Rey be a Skywalker and also be an independent woman. But a random would have to uphold Luke's legacy and teachings with no chance of being her own person.

edited 21st Nov '17 12:38:55 AM by Shadao

This isn't a knock against your argument, I see where you're coming from. But I've always disliked this Lucas quote intensely. This reasoning is actually why a lot of people have children, because they feel like it will 'fix me' or it's 'what you're supposed to do' and it's such a dangerous message. If you're having kids to fill some kind of hole in your life it's no longer about them, it's about you. Having kids didn't fix my grandparent's relationship, it just created a bunch of emotionally-damaged kids.

And unless he's referring to a non-biological definition of procreate, that's fucked up too. It's the sort of reasoning that's been used to discriminate against both queer and 'different' people for centuries, and ignores that human evolution is actually very sociocultural, not biological).

But I'll also acknowledge that this is turning into more of a series of personal rants than a Star Wars post, so I'll drop it. So I'm not on a total tangent, I just want to say that I've managed to avoid every trailer for TLJ except the first one, and I can't wait to see the movie next month! Can't believe we're that close already.

edited 21st Nov '17 5:23:32 AM by Pseudopartition

> post

I was'nt suggesting it was a genetic trait,I was merely suggesting that some people may lured to the darkside because of prestige/infamy that comes with being a relative of the Dark Lord of the Sith ,so they embrace it like Kylo did.

I think Kylo will end up much like his Idol,,that mask he wears might end up becoming permanent

New theme music also a box

He smashes the mask in the trailer, so I suspect that he will further try to divorce himself from his past (attempting to kill Leia, trying to let go of his grandfather etc).

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele

Uh oh. Battlefront II's epilogue mission apparently does tie in with TLJ as well as its upcoming Resurrection update.

The Protomen enhanced my life.

Yep, the last mission is you playing as Kylo Ren hunting down Del Meeko.

Lucasfilm also delayed the release of the upcoming missions, since they allegedly contain spoilers for The Last Jedi.

The Protomen enhanced my life.

I imagine then that they don't act like the Scarif mission then, since that one had so many changes it was essentially a completely different mission.

What if we get to the end of Episode 9 and Rey's parentage is still a mystery? XD

The Protomen enhanced my life.

Then I'm done with the movies.

They're creating an entire universe to replace the old EU. In a bit of a hurry though.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele