Teen Titans (2003)

I'm watching "Fractured" right now and I want to know what the fuck is going on.

edited 22nd Aug '17 3:19:53 PM by Karxrida

Larry is like Mr. Mxy and Bat-mite, an imp that can screw with reality without much issue, but is pretty bad at it, so his attempts to help tend to go awry.

I'm really finding Terra Unintentionally Unsympathetic. Her reasons for betraying the Titans and joining Slade are super flimsy and disproportionate, which makes it really hard for me to find her likable or see her as tragic. Her character was probably better off without the Adaptation Personality Change and Adaptational Heroism.

Also, the special suit Slade gave her is super bullshit even by the loose standards of comics.

edited 23rd Aug '17 3:31:42 PM by Karxrida

I say her character was better with those changes, because her original story had a lot of Unfortunate Implications concerning blaming everything on her including sleeping with Slade/Deathstroke and her own death. I also think in the original story they really made her too one dimensionally evil.

Yeah, Terra really didn't have any reason to hate them here. She betrayed them, and then when they go out of their way to give her a second (and third!) chance, she spits in their faces.

Also, I have to call bullshit on how she somehow failed to kill all of them. Starfire I get, but the others, especially Robin just doesn't make sense.

With regards with Terra, can we all agree that her portrayal in the Judas Contract movie is the best of both worlds?

Like the show she is portrayed sympathetically for her trust issues and not suffer from the Unfortunate Implications the original comics gave. L Ike the comics, she has a good reason for betraying the team by actually being a mole the whole time and reasons for joining up with Deathstroke is due to misplaced hero worship. I think I prefer that film's take on Terra, a shame that we only get to know her and relations with the team through only that film where the other two get plenty of issues/episodes to establish themselves.

I don't mind Terra, actually. I heard in the comics that she actually had sexual relationships with Slade.

Anyway, after taking a long hiatus from fiction, I still see Raven & Robin as my favorite members.

Its true. She did have a sexual relationship with Slade. Same with the Judas Contract movie. However, for us comic fans, there is layers of Unfortunate Implications behind it as it was the writers way of trying to make her evil by essentially slut slamming her (nevermind the fact that she is a teenage girl getting taken advantage of by a much older guy). Hell, the original Judas Contract story basically attempt at making Terra the repugnant villainous who gladly murders the team and Deathstroke the tragic anti hero who gets a face turn later on in the comics . . . yeah even though I prefer the comics over the tv show I have to admit that was not right at all.

BTW which Robin: the circus one, the street one, the junior detective one, the girl one, or the asshole one?

Soo, the junior detective? . . . And this is why I use the first names for each Robins.

edited 15th Sep '17 9:25:29 AM by BigK1337

The one from Teen Titans (2003), obviously.

I always figured that, considering Slade's suit let her completely hijack her powers when he wanted to, Terra in the first part of Aftershock wasn't all Terra: Slade was subtly influencing her to be more aggressive so that she would do the job he wanted her to do (some of it was her, because Beast Boy said she had no friends, and rightfully so, not that much).

So after she beats them, time passes, he's no longer upping her aggression, and she's got time to remember what she had, and threw away. Suddenly they come back, and aren't playing around anymore, and she's no longer as angry (on her own, or with Slade's control) as she was the first time, so she gets stomped. Since they aren't on the same page anymore, Slade just body jacks her entirely.

Just a theory though. No evidence in the show, so lets just say it was a poor writing mistake.

I definitely agree that the full on Judas Contract adaptation finally did her real justice. She's the best version of Terra to date.

I always felt that cartoon!Terra was supposed to be one of those "what if a real kid got fantastic powers" stories. She's not wholly good or evil, but she's scared, kind of selfish, and her powers are a threat to everyone around her. Sure, the Titans could train her, but that's no guarantee of success. Even her counterpart Raven, with her lifetime of training, ended up unleashing the apocalypse. Slade offered Terra a simple solution, and she was desperate enough to take it.

I think "Aftershocks" was all Terra, at her best and worst. Slade's plan was to offer Terra a simple solution to her power incontinence, balanced by her fear of the Titans rejecting her and her resentment of their connections to each other and society. So, Slade first trains Terra. And because she's so desperate for human connections, she's unwilling to throw away the person who gave her the best gift she's ever gotten. Slade sweetens the deal by giving Terra opportunities to grow closer to the Titans, which is something she wants, all the while warning her that the Titans will ultimately reject her. When that finally happens (because Terra betrayed them first), she's willing to fully side with Slade.

And it's not like it's implied that Slade's control is mental. It's purely shown to be him controlling her body.

It should be said that while it's strongly implied that Terra had sexual relations with Slade in the comics, but it's never confirmed outright. That's enough wiggle room for Wolfman and Perez to deny that it ever happened, if they want.

But yeah, they were playing each other. In general, I don't mind irredeemably evil characters (there are such people in the world). Terra's primary reason for infiltrating the Titans was that she was being paid to do so; she wasn't really betraying them in the comics version, because she was never one of them in the first place.

Her reasons for betraying the Titans and joining Slade are super flimsy and disproportionate, which makes it really hard for me to find her likable or see her as tragic.

Slade first put the idea in her head that the Titan she'd bonded closest with would blab her secret to the rest of the team, and then it seemed like this actually happened just as Slade sad it would, making Terra feel Slade might have been right about everything (such as "only I can help you and teach you to get your powers under control) just as he was right about Beast Boy, so she came running back to him. Then after she was taught to control her powers, Slade put her up to the "betraying the Titans" mission as an act of gratitude, playing off of Terra's need for guidance in her unstable life and making her feel as though she owed him everything. Terra was literally emotionally manipulated and mentally abused by an evil man. I can't see how this makes her unsympathetic here.

I think "Aftershocks" was all Terra, at her best and worst. Slade's plan was to offer Terra a simple solution to her power incontinence, balanced by her fear of the Titans rejecting her and her resentment of their connections to each other and society. So, Slade first trains Terra. And because she's so desperate for human connections, she's unwilling to throw away the person who gave her the best gift she's ever gotten. Slade sweetens the deal by giving Terra opportunities to grow closer to the Titans, which is something she wants, all the while warning her that the Titans will ultimately reject her. When that finally happens (because Terra betrayed them first), she's willing to fully side with Slade.

Exactly.

And it's not like it's implied that Slade's control is mental. It's purely shown to be him controlling her body.

In Part 1 at least we see that their bodies and mind are synchronized thanks to the suit, but it doesn't make a whole lot of difference since Slade and Terra were both wanting the same thing and acting similar already, with the student taking after her master.

@Handsome Rob: I liked DTV Terra mostly from the standpoint of her character's arc and how it combined the best of both interpretations of Terra, but I like both comics Terra and show Terra better as characters. They have a wider range of emotions than DTV Terra (who was usually just snarky, sullen, or angry) and have some better lines and funny moments.

Though I'll go on a limb and say that the best, most accurate depiction of Terra is the Teen Titans Go version. I don't even like the show but I love her on it. (Some of her ridiculously evil lines are priceless, like "That's the dance I'll be doing on the Titans' graves!" )

edited 16th Sep '17 11:18:26 AM by ANewMan

The worst part about TTG Terra is that she is very in character . . . sans the whole sexual relationship with Slade, buckteeth and being a princess of a made up European country who has a brother that is a member of Batman's black op metahuman team who sometimes have a will they won't they with that team's Starfire (but ultimately just settle as friends).

. . . Now I want to read Batman and the Outsiders again. Or better yet Beware the Batman which is definitely an adaption of said comics.

I remember there was that issue of the first Harley Quinn comic run where she ended up in hell and met Terra. That was fun.

edited 16th Sep '17 8:09:50 PM by KnownUnknown

That happened? Where is this comic? I'd love to see that!

Yep. Harley gets herself killed, has some shenanigans before realizing she's in Hell and then orchestrates a jailbreak - in which Terra is the Wild Card.

The storyline was called "Hell and High Water," from the old Harley series rather than the current one. It's pretty fun - one of my favorite runs of a comic in general, really. At least, for a while.

edited 17th Sep '17 7:25:50 PM by KnownUnknown

Season 1 is now out on Blu-ray

https://io9.gizmodo.com/fans-can-finally-own-a-great-version-of-the-original-te-1821505647

Awesome! Now we can probably get more behind the scenes look with the original series, even though I've enjoyed the voice actors interviews in the original DVD series.

I’ve just got to say this; what would Starfire’s initial behaviour be in regards to meeting Batman face to face? I ask because, when you think about, her meeting him is somewhat the equivalent of someone meeting their lover’s parents for the first time

The answer: read the manga.

In all seriousness the answers lie in just reading the actual comics the show was loosely based on. After all the DC heroes have all interacted at somepoint. Like Dick and Kara have both worked together as members of the Justice League during James Robinson’s run. Thus completing my character arc of finding a comic where the two actually interacted.

I'm not sure the comics comparison would work so well here. Moreso than anyone else on the team (which is saying something) 2003 Starfire is an almost entirely different character from her comics counterpart, prone to react to situations entirely differently.

Furthermore, the New Teen Titans comics the series is (loosely) based off of were from the mid-80's, where Batman and Robin's relationship was... weird, and on top of that interaction with Bruce and non-Bat Family characters tends to be written in a limited way. I don't know if they even had a book where Batman "formally" met Starfire.

Most likely Batman and the Titans were all thrown together for an adventure, Bruce and Dick have a scene commenting on the relationship, and that was all there was to their first meeting.

edited 27th Dec '17 12:03:00 AM by KnownUnknown

I think the comic you are mentioning is the crossover between the Titans and Outsider.

But yeah I agree with your points. Though, with DC’s huge library of comics chances are there was a comic where the two actually interacted with one another. Maybe in one of those Nu 52 comics (specifically the Red Hood & The Outlaws tie in comic to Death of a Family). I mean before I actually read James Robinson run of Justice League, I believed that Supergirl and Dick Grayson never interacted with one another in any medium. Boy was I wrong.

Nobody really answered my question; what would (2003 version) Starfire’s initial behaviour be in regards to meeting Batman face to face? Like I said, her meeting him is somewhat the equivalent of meeting one’s lover’s parents for the first time