I see no reason not to expand this to be non-media specific.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Aye, expand this one.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Because the trope itself isn't. It's been used across all media, as seen in the non-gaming examples section. Yet the current description makes it seem as if it's exclusive to boss battles in video games.
That's what created the confusion in the YKTTW discussion that I mentioned. Which is why I'm suggesting a revision for the sake of clarity.
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
That's what ~shimaspawn is agreeing with.... No need to phrase it like you disagree.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Or to randomly delete the word not from my comment when you quote it.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Well there are a lot of video game specific mechanics to this though that are probably best left to a trope of its own and the fights have a hell of a lot more than what a tv show would do. looking at it from strictly a gameplay perspective, these are usually extremely different from a normal boss especially in an RPG and they have their own cliches.
Stuff that comes to mind are
- Unwinnable Boss Fight,
- Boss Battle Music changes to match the character's theme of a whole new theme
- The character you are fighting suddenly has stats 100x what they had when controlling them, possibly with lots of new abilities.
- the character you are controlling does not obey input orders,
- gameplay switch up,
- 1v1 Duel Fight,
- Survival Fight just don't die till the story takes over,
- Massive scripting in the fight,
- branching paths,
- The fight ends when someone reaches a set percentage of HP instead of taking it to zero.
- win or lose the story continues with maybe an optional item being lost,
- hidden objectives in the battle for a secret ending, IE Digital Devil Saga and Suikoden 2.
- No victory pose after winning.
Renaming the trope to some like Friendly Boss Fight and/or Ex Friend Boss Fight to cover the mechanics of these types of Boss Fight and launch that more general fighting a friend story YKTTW would be the best IMO.
edited 26th Jun '15 9:03:23 AM by Memers
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
My mistake. I misread what you wrote.
I guess that works too, since in other media, a fight between friends can have just as many narrative purposes:
- The may be on opposing sides due to differing ideologies. In which case, one of them is likely to be either a Well-Intentioned Extremist, or simply misguided.
- It could be a result of mind control, or demonic possession; making it the "I Know You're in There Somewhere" variant. But, depending on the work, it may not always be possible to save them.
- A crueler version may have it being their inevitable fate to fight each other - possibly to the death.
- The other friend may have been deceived into believing they've been betrayed, or that they were going to be betrayed (ex. Anakin to Obi-Wan, in the Revenge of the Sith).
- As with video game versions, the fight may be set to the accompaniment of Sad Battle Music for drama and to convey the reluctance of either side.
I still think both can be covered by a single trope. But if we go with the split, I'd suggest moving the non-gaming examples to the "Reluctant Fight" YKTTW.
edited 26th Jun '15 10:24:51 AM by MiinU
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
The various gameplay mechanics (such as a Player-Controlled character becoming a Nonplayer-Controlled character) should be separate tropes. In many tabletop games, doing the wrong action may surrender your sheet to the GM that might or might not become a new villain.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
I completely agree that there should be a general trope, just the boss fight version is something is a type of boss fight that uses various styles to portray it. It is a subtrope of the general trope and on the Boss Battle index.
None of those I listed are limited to a Friend Boss Fight and yeah they should each have a trope of their own, Just this type of personal Boss fight likes to use those other tropes.
edited 27th Jun '15 4:42:42 AM by Memers
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Well yeah it's 'common elements' for the vs a friend boss fight.
Also I would view the general trope as something strictly serious while the video game boss fight trope as every type of tone from friendly sparring match to an arena battle to a full fight to the death, they all like to use those same common elements.
So are you suggesting we use FYF for general (non-gaming) examples and create a separate trope for boss battles between friends?
If so, I can go along with that. But there'd be a crapload of examples to port over to the new page, in order to clear this one up.
The general trope covers those too, though. For example: Goku and Krillin once fought each other during the 'World Martial Arts' tournament - which was a friendly arena match, until Krillin started losing.
edited 27th Jun '15 1:34:41 PM by MiinU
I've long wondered what the difference is between Fighting Your Friend and Dueling Player Characters, aside from the latter being named as an exclusively video game-related trope.
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
Okay, so aside from a brief misunderstanding, I believe we're all in agreement to turn this into a non-media-specific supertrope to all situations where friends fight.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Locking as part of New Years Purge
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
I'm bringing this up due to confusion caused by a recently created YKTTW called "Reluctant Fight".
The current description for FYF is entirely game specific, despite encompassing non-video game examples. So I'm thinking of revising the description in order to clarify that it covers both. But I'd prefer a consensus before making the revision.