Netflix Daredevil

Garth Ennis's take (which is probably the best take out there) is both lighter and darker. He doesn't punish every criminal (certainly not those who are very small-time), but when he comes across a really, really horrendous person, well...

Behold what he does to a sex slave trafficker.

That was for information, though. In the lead-up to that, he acknowledged that if he wanted to interrogate a battle-hardened mercenary from war-torn parts of the world, he was going to need to seriously up his ante; it wasn't like a gangbanger where you poke him with a knife and he screams all his secrets.

EDIT: Wait, is that the scene where he hangs the guy's intestines from a tree or the one where he makes snuff porn out of the group's leader and sends the video back to the organization? My work filter won't load the link. The former was the one I was talking about.

edited 10th Jun '15 9:06:52 AM by TobiasDrake

I've actually been sort of interested in checking the Ennis run out, though I've never bothered for one reason or another. It takes place in its' own standalone continuity right?

Yup; it was the intestine hanging.

edited 10th Jun '15 9:14:32 AM by kkhohoho

That's what I thought.

The cover for that issue◊ even shows Castle brushing up on his research in preparation for that interrogation, sharpening a knife while reading a book on human anatomy.

What's Frank's position on sacrificing innocents for the greater good?

He's killed people for doing that.

There is no greater good to Frank. What he does isn't about good. It's about punishing evil.

One alternate universe comic featured Frank ending mankind's hope for reconstruction after a nuclear apocalypse because the survivors were responsible for the atrocity. Frank's not a big picture guy.

edited 10th Jun '15 10:01:03 AM by TobiasDrake

The Marvel MAX versions of the Punisher, Nick Fury, Foolkiller, and maybe Wolverine all take place on Earth-200111.

The Marvel Knights Punisher comics by Ennis (and a few guest writers) take place on plain old 616, though.

I always liked Punisher as a "what we might become" Shadow Archetype of various characters rather than a Face himself, which would work especially well with how they're doing Daredevil in the series.

Though my favorite Punisher moment is the one in JLA/Avengers where Batman beats him up offscreen (mostly cause it's part of a pretty funny Hypocritical Humor gag).

As long as they don't make him 'idiot who charges into situations without getting the full picture, inevitably making things worse'.

edited 11th Jun '15 6:13:13 PM by KnownUnknown

I could see a situation where he understands the full picture, but will always work towards the end where the guilty are severely punished without exception rather then the end where life is actually better for the average person.

This alone has a huge amount of potential conflict with Daredevil.

edited 11th Jun '15 8:22:00 PM by Falrinn

That.

Castle should be depicted as a competent professional. The problem is his goals, not the methods he uses to achieve them. Murdock's trying to make his city a better place and Castle keeps flooding it in a sea of corpses.

I hope they take some inspiration from the Thomas Jane film. As adaptations go, that was the perfect depiction of the Punisher. He's not a mindless killing machine that just kicks in the door and opens fire. There's a lot of time and preparation that goes into everything he does. By the time he enters the building, he's already mapped out a plan for killing everyone inside it.

He's not just really good at guns; he's a trained, heavily experienced veteran in the field of guerilla warfare.

When push comes to shove, he should also be a pretty significant physical threat to Murdock for that reason as well. Murdock's advantages are stealth, his enhanced senses, and close-quarters combat. Castle's advantages are experience, an arsenal of deadly projectile, explosive, and psychological weapons, and an unparalleled mastery of urban warfare.

edited 12th Jun '15 9:41:03 AM by TobiasDrake

Tbf to that series, that was more in line with how Frank was when he debuted in Spider-Man. Something that gets forgotten about the Punisher is that in his first appearance he was trying to kill someone who was completely innocent of the crime said person was accused of. It's not the most interesting take on Frank but it does have precedent. Frank's problem is that while he makes a good foil to more merciful heroes, it means he can be written as less of a character and more of a Conflict Generator.

And then there was the time Frank shot some people for littering...◊

edited 12th Jun '15 1:17:13 PM by spashthebandragon

Wasn't that retconned into Jigsaw in disguise?

Nah, it was retconned into him being drugged.

Man, Bill Mantlo must really not have liked the Punisher. That beginning part is almost like a complete parody of Punisher stories.

Finally watched this.

I'm highly impressed that Actual Golden Retriever Foggy Nelson managed to get through an entire season without so much as, like, a skinned knee. No being held hostage. No getting stabbed or shot (or shot at, even, iirc.) no one coming after him at all. Like, dang. That's gotta be some kind of record for "non-powered best friend of a superhero." even by sheer bad luck, I was expecting /something/. It was a nice break. The last three characters I've called Actual Golden Retrievers have all died.

There's always next season.

I know Eddie was one, but who were the other two?

Cisco counts on a technicality?

I would assume Andy Dwyer would be one, but unless there's a dark Parks And Recreation sequel I don't know about, I don't think he is.

I don't think so, Cisco was one of the precious science babies.

Cisco's not one of them, he is the most precious of precious science babies plus he walked it off, Eddie was one, the other two were book characters. Owen from "Prairie Fire" and Micah from the Tennis Shoes adventures.

There's always next season or the copious amount of fanfiction.

I /may/ have gone through all 47 pages in the Foggy tag on Ao3. And by may I mean I totally did.

and then told my friend Kenna, who said "that's it? maybe you should fix that and write some—-wait, no, on second thought, don't."

as if all I ever wrote was heartbreaking sadfic, which, as the three chapters of flash metakittie fic proves, I do not.

speaking of fic, though, shameless plug on friend Kenna's behalf for "Guardian Angel" which also features kittens. and is hilarious.

edited 18th Jun '15 2:37:37 PM by Ellowen

Looks like the main conflict of season two will be Daredevil vs the Punisher.

I'm kinda worried that this will pull time/focus away from Fisk, and new characters like Elektra (it's not been confirmed, but I think she's likely). But then again, not every episode of the first season was about the Fisk-Murdock conflict, and we are talking about an entire season here, so maybe my fears are unfounded.

I am all for Fisk getting a much reduced role in the second season. He can pop up once or twice to remind us that a caged beast is still a beast and that he's up to his old tricks in his new situation but I would get very bored with season after season of DD vs Kingpin, no matter how good they both are in the roles.

Bring on the Hand (including Elektra), and Bullseye, and the Owl(son of the late Leland) as far as I'm concerned. Or let Gladiator have an arc. He would be a very interesting (anti?) villain to introduce if Punisher is the main antagonist, because he's genuinely mentally ill and not altogether in the head. A good point of conflict between Matt who needs to stop him (but then help him) and Frank, who wants to stop him (and then shoot the body, to make sure.)

This could actually work. Take a break from Fisk for a season and have all of this other stuff going on. At the same time, occasionally cut to Fisk; show that he's using his time to think, to plan, and to slowly and gradually rebuild his empire. Then in the third season, Fisk takes center stage once more, with his main objective being righteous vengeance against all those he felt have wronged him.