I would agree that abstract concepts can't count for Monumental Theft.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Sure YKTTW that I like Intangible Theft though.
I looked on the Kingdom Hearts II page for the example that I know of and it was under
- Ret-Gone: A minor variation on the trope occurs when all the photos owned by the residents of Twilight Town are stolen. Everyone remembers the photos, but the theft is so complete that even the word "photo" is stolen, and is blanked out of the characters' dialogues when they try to say it.
So maybe want to look at that one for more misuse / examples.
edited 23rd Mar '15 2:04:33 AM by Memers
Chair Man
Throwing support for making Intangible Theft and make Monumental Theft's definition stricter.
Impossible Thief should be a supertrope.
MAX POWER KILL JEEEEEEEEWWWWW
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
Impossible Thief: Someone who steals something that was thought to be impossible to steal, IE something that has a impregnable security and they steal it without setting off an alarm or people even knowing he was there. Or literally breaks the laws of physics to steal something, IE someone steals a pair of panties off someone from across the room without even being near them, they are just that good. Explanations as to how are quite optional.
Monumental Theft: Why break into Fort Knox? Just take the whole damn thing.
Intangible Theft: Someone steals a word, emotion, thought etc. It is not something that physically exists but they stole it.
edited 23rd Mar '15 7:54:48 AM by Memers
And honestly, examples that use multiple subtropes are ok.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
Examples that use multiple tropes are okay, of course. But when do they not overlap? When is an example excluded from the trope? The laconic summaries given for Monumental Theft & Intangible Theft do not distinguish from Impossible Thief, nor are they subtropes.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Impossible Thief is about the Thief who is so good he might pull off the Thefts of the other two tropes. Character Trope vs Act Trope.
They don't really have to be an Impossible Thief to commit an Intangible Theft too, the laws of the universe might make that normal like say Kingdom Hearts II.
edited 23rd Mar '15 9:18:51 AM by Memers
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
"something that was thought to be impossible to steal" == "not something that physically exists but they stole it"
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
So, you're saying that it seems perfectly normal to you to be able to steal the idea of music?
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
No, I don't consider it "normal". I'd consider it impossible. Can you explain how I accidentally gave the opposite impression?
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Yes, so it's a perfect subtrope of impossible theft.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
Except that is a Characters Trope.
edited 23rd Mar '15 3:08:56 PM by crazysamaritan
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Well, maybe that's what we need to fix. If we make the trope Impossible Theft instead of Impossible Thief and make the proper subtropes it should work as needed. Because really, the trope makes more sense as X thing happens than character who makes X thing happen.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
Ah. That would work for me.
- Impossible acts of theft in general
- Stealing things that are the size of a house (at minimum)
- stealing things that are not physical (concepts, words, memories)
I like the character trope though, it's usually their thing that they do that. It's related but not limited to Phantom Thief.
I could see a rename though and a new Impossible Theft trope though. However we would have to make sure the trope can have a mundane explanation explained later, possibly as an internal subtrope, that is the realm of a Phantom Thief.
edited 23rd Mar '15 6:36:33 PM by Memers
Ok, so were any definite decisions made on this? Should I make the Intangible Theft YKTTW, or is someone else up to it?
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
Impossible Thief is not about thefts that are impossible to occur (otherwise the thief couldn't do them). They're about performing a theft that is so amazing, no one else can figure out how it's done. Usually they're considered "just that good". If we make that an action trope instead of a character trope, nothing much is lost. It's no longer a characterization, it's just something that different people might do. Perhaps as proof that they're a Phantom Thief.
One "impossible" type of theft is stealing something the size of a building or larger.
Another "impossible" theft is stealing something that doesn't exist physically.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Exactly. These will be subtropes of Impossible Theft, which is really a better name and focus for that trope anyway. It's written like a plot trope but named like a character trope. Awkward.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
So I think we have consensus here to
- Rename Impossible Thief to Impossible Theft, an action/plot trope about Impossible acts of theft in general with two subtropes that cover most examples:
- Define Monumental Theft as Stealing things that are the size of a house (at minimum)
- YKTTW Intangible Theft as stealing things that are not physical (concepts, words, memories)
edited 22nd Dec '15 9:04:50 AM by crazysamaritan
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
That's the plan.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=wg32d1lvkg09e4ptc4hq7rhl
Intangible theft is up
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
Sandbox.Impossible Theft draft is up, could I get some opinions on the tweaks for the new name?
(And what's the appropriate link for Falling Action in a story?)
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
Looking for complaints/compliments on
edited 7th Jan '16 11:17:53 AM by crazysamaritan
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
I want to specify right away: this isn't just about Monumental Theft, but both about it and the Impossible Thief.
The problem I'm noticing is how blurry the line between the two is, caused by the fact that Monumental Theft's description allows for stealing also abstract concepts.
Looking at the examples from both tropes, I can see entries from the former that would make more sense in the latter, and vice versa. There are entries in Impossible Thief describing theft of what obviously counts as Monumental Theft, and in Monumental Theft there are examples of what is impossible thievery, but not of something that can be considered a monument.
I'm wondering if, in order to avoid confusion and misconceptions, Monumental Theft shouldn't be restricted specifically to stealing enormous physical objects, while the Impossible Thief shouldn't be expanded to cover also stealing intangible things like color blue. Or perhaps make it a trope of its own, Stealing The Intangible or something.
Overall, I'd say that these two tropes could use some better distinction between each other.