The Islamophobia Thread

De Marquis: I aim to, once I have transportation and free time.

edited 26th Jun '17 7:19:09 PM by MarkVonLewis

Completely open intermingling of the sexes in every possible sphere of life and completely dropping the hijab, among other things.

Laugh it off if you want; just know that you'll lose every ounce of respect from me.

edited 27th Jun '17 8:44:01 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

That sounds good, the idea that the sexes should be segregated is one of the most irrational cultural practices to be ever spawned out of Human ignorance. Thankfully it's mostly dead in the US (with the exception of certain more conservative/religious subcultures).

edited 27th Jun '17 10:12:22 AM by Fourthspartan56

"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn

<rolls eyes> The fact that you simply chalk it up to human ignorance shows either just how little you understand about the topic when it comes to Islamic societies, or that you believe I'm talking about the more extreme forms of segregation that are believed in my the more ultraconservative members of Islamic society (example: the backwards-minded men who adamantly refused to let firefighters enter an all-girls school to save the girls inside from the raging fire a few years ago, because the girls were not wearing hijab).

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Then elaborate? I see no reason beyond ignorance for any gender segregation. I would love to hear a rational reason.

"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn

I suppose that one could argue along the Japanese line that gender segregation in public spaces is necessary for women's "safety".

The problem here is the fact that such a line of thought implies that men cannot be trusted to not be "led astray" and fall victim to the inner animal that lies in all of us in the midst of a woman, which ultimately does nothing to send the message that it is a man's fault for engaging in inappropriate activities upon a woman instead of being the latter's own "mistake" of "asking for it" in some form.

Exactly. If one supports segregation to protect women they put the responsibility on women to protect themselves. When instead men should be taught to stop behaving in that way, it's not that they can't control themselves they specifically choose to act in such a fashion.

"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn

Considering that ISIS is an Apocalyptic Cult... not many.

edited 27th Jun '17 11:32:12 AM by NoName999

Exemplified by the fact that segregation often punishes the victims. Because most often women are barred from participating or even entering public spheres, instead of the men. That unmasks the "protection of women" argument as the fig-leaf for sexism it is. It's also heteronormative on top of that.

edited 27th Jun '17 11:37:56 AM by Antiteilchen

Agreed. There simply aren't any rational reasons for supporting segregation of the sexes.

"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn

@Marq, I find it amusing but not in the laughing at you or your beliefs sense, but the laughing at how dramatically different our views are.

At age 12 I would drag my mattress into the girl's room at boarding school and sleep in there after getting the okay of I think 3 people, none of whom ever said no. I was related to none of these girls and went on to date one of them many years later.

I must be the hight of western decadence to you, that amuses me greatly, I don't think of myself as a decedent person, but to you I almost certainly appear to be.

As I've said before I'm more than open to hearing about why you feel gender segregation is a good thing, the idea intrudes me, I don't think I'm going to end up agreeing with you and I doubt you'll end up agreeing with me, we both likely have entirely logical reasons for believing that our way is best.

I find it funny how dramatically different or views are on this, we're both polite about it, but we really are polar opposites in this sense.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

Agreed, and I doubt any of us Western tropes will end up agreeing with him. But it would be interesting.

"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn

Only half-right. Believe it or not, it's for protecting both sexes.

It's not Islam that says that only one sex could be held accountable for being led astray; it's the people who twist Islam's teachings and force upon it a patriarchal/male chauvinist bent that wasn't there to begin with (which is, sadly, the majority of those with decision-making power and a significantly large proportion of the Joe Averages).

And how are you so sure that Islam doesn't explicitly warn men to exercise self-control no matter what?

And yes, Islam does that. News to you, isn't it?

As far as you can conceive of. Do not mistake your subjective beliefs with objective fact.

---

@Silasw:

Oh no, far from it. You're just a quite tame "average" example of Western decadence. The height of Western decadence IMO would be asking us to legalize avenues for gambling in all its forms, brothels and pornography, as well as decriminalize extramarital sex and sodomy.

edited 27th Jun '17 12:07:25 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

In that case, steer clear of Las Vegas.

Heck, even if one doesn't find all of that shit totally immoral, it'd be a good idea to avoid Las Vegas. It's so expensive.

Disgusted, but not surprised

I was finding it understandable, if disagreeable, until you mentioned sodomy.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."

Seriously.

"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn

You forgot Nevada, the only US state where prostitution is legal. (How did that even happen? Or alternatively, why is it so alone in the USA in that regard?)

Probably has to do with the lack of competition. Maybe if there were 2 or 3 other cities that rival it for the status of "Sin City".

& Would you have preferred that I lie by omission? Because I detest lying without a good reason.

Finally, someone who is interpreting my statements reasonably.

edited 27th Jun '17 12:16:34 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Considering certain local stories that were told in the past by Marq and the specific cultural and religious backgrounds involving his country, I think his philosophical and political vision in regards to this matter are less meant to be understood as a claim meant to be applied everywhere (because Marq knows that his idea would not fly in the 'West' and that it's a downright unrealistic idea), and more as a claim that is supposed to address/suit his country's specific particularities (both its strengths and its weaknesses).

I can understand where he comes from. Especially since he only dislikes 'complete X', not 'partial X'. A moderate view, in light of his background, imo.

edited 27th Jun '17 12:16:59 PM by Quag15

Um, Las Vegas is in Nevada.

Disgusted, but not surprised

Huh. For a moment I thought it was in California.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

NVM

edited 27th Jun '17 12:19:51 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised

Well I don't think anyone is asking you to lie. I said I was finding the whole perspective of "western decadence" plausible (if disagreeable) until "the legalization of sodomy" became a topic.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."

TBF, the USA only finally got rid of all sodomy laws in 2003.

edited 27th Jun '17 12:24:51 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised

I'd note that Marq said that the height of decadence would be making his country legalise such things, not legalising them ourselves. There's a subtle difference there.

@Marq you'll actually find you're wrong on your categorisation of me, I'm far from the average in this regard when it comes to my country. It's not just that I support the free intermingling of men and women (a very standard position) but that I believe such intermingling should not be assumed to always be romantic or sexual in nature. That's caused me a number of issues in the past and I'm most certainly in the minority with my views.

You'll find plenty of people in the western world who agree with your views on gender segregation Marq, generally in the orthodox religious communities, from Christian to Judaism and within other religions to.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

Las Vegas is pretty much the height of Western decadence. And I say that as someone who supports brothels, pornography, as well as decriminalization of extramarital sex and sodomy (well, not the bestiality part).

Then again I'm not sure what sexual liberty has to do with decadence. Decadence is often just what a person finds not to their tastes or threatens their power. The only use it has is as wastefulness. And then you better just use that word.