Honestly, this discussion is really making me think we need to do a Trope Transplant as Critical Hit doesn't mean what it actually does in the wild and we are missing a trope for the standard definition which is any hit in a game that does more damage than usual by fulfilling a special condition.
What we need to do is move the current definition to Random Chance Critical Hit because looking through the wicks for Critical Hit, it's already being used as its own super trope.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
At the very minimum, this should be done.
And I like the " ahit in a game that does more damage than usual by fulfilling a special condition" definition for Critical Hit.
I completely agree.
And subtropes would be 'exactly what needs to be done' in case of RNG Crit its a diceroll, in the case of Cr6itical Hit Headshot its a headshot, in the case of Critical Hit Skill it would be use the skill, Critical Hit Stat would be have more of the stat and diceroll and so on.
Now Attack Its Weakpoint would be a super trope to Critical Hit Headshot I think but that one needs somework, we have an exposing weakness trope somewhere right? Achilles' Heel seems to be just about the weakpoint, nothing about attacking, exposing it or it having any effect.
edited 3rd Aug '15 12:23:12 PM by Memers
The Unknown
Attack Its Weakpoint shouldn't be a super trope to Critical Hit Headshot because of what I mentioned earlier (AIW is for when there's only one spot you can damage the enemy while CHH is just when the headshot does more damage), but it could be a sister trope since heads are common weak points.
If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
If it does more damage to hit or instant kills at that location and a normal hit in another location then by definition it is a weakpoint.
Enemies can have more than one weakpoint too or have scaling points of weakness and strengths which would be another trope.
edited 3rd Aug '15 12:49:57 PM by Memers
Wrong. Attack Its Weak Point is when it can ONLY be damaged by its weak point. Not just when it's weak point does more damage.
That was what I had thought but someone said that wasn't the case and the numerous examples on the page just the literal 'attack the weakness for bonus damage' as well.
IE
- In Team Fortress 2:
- Hitting an enemy in the back with the knife as a Spy.
- Hitting an enemy in the back with fire from the Pyro's Backburner flamethower.
- Shooting an enemy in the head with (and only with) the Sniper's sniper rifle.
- Taken to its logical extreme in Monster Hunter. Although no boss in the game has a specific weak point, all of them have parts that are weaker or stronger against player attack. Further, depending on the method of attack used, the weak points may be different (some parts are weak against blunt force but resistant to damage from edged weapons, for instance). Each part of their body also takes a varying amount of damage from the different elements. Properly exploiting these weaknesses can easily make the difference between a hunt taking close to the usual time limit of 50 minutes or less then half that.
- Pokémon:
- The anime's issues with New Powers as the Plot Demands aside, Parasect doesn't have just a double weakness to Flying and Fire, but in Generation IV, potentially a triple weakness to Fire if it has the Dry Skin ability.
Hell half the page is that way...
edited 3rd Aug '15 1:44:55 PM by Memers
Those examples are wrong and the page needs to be cleaned up, because they don't fit the trope definition. Continuing the misuse is not helpful.
They're not wrong, they're just Downplayed.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
The Unknown
No they're all wrong. Especially the Team Fortress 2 examples because those are all just Critical Hits.
If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
Yeah, it's looking like a decent chunk of the misuse is coming from the fact that we define Critical Hit so narrowly.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
The Unknown
I think a separate TRS might be in order.
If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
As do I. Looking at the Misuse for Attack Its Weak Point it's almost universally just a lack of a Critical Hit trope outside of RNG Critical Hit so this is Missing Super Trope Syndrome hardcore mode.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Here's the discussion for Critical Hit: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1438637657049822800&page=1
I also trimmed off the meandering analysis from the description of Attack Its Weak Point.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. DickIf it's not invincible, but it's still extra-vulnerable in that one spot, that should absolutely count as a Downplayed example. Tropes Are Flexible. Besides, the name would be pretty misleading otherwise.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
There's flexible, and there's against the very spirit of the trope. The trope is that this creature is otherwise invincible, and the only way to proceed is to Attack Its Weak Point.
The weak point in that case doesn't do more damage. It's the only place that does any damage.
The more damage examples aren't downplayed. They're barely related.
I'm not saying the name is good. I'm just saying that these two things should not be lumped into one trope. There's a reason Attack Its Weak Point is a subtrope of Achilles' Heel.
edited 3rd Aug '15 9:05:08 PM by shimaspawn
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. DickThe spirit of the trope is that there's a clear weak point that you're supposed to attack. Making the rest of the boss invincible is just the most straightforward way to accomplish that. But it doesn't need to work exactly that way, just like it doesn't need to be a Boss Fight.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
It starts with the premise of nigh invulnerability and it continues that theme over and over and over in the definition. At no point is there a hint that hitting this enemy anywhere else would do any damage. Just making up loopholes to the actual definitions that are stated nowhere in them is what causes trope decay and misuse.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
I can actually get behind the suggestion proposed in 127 and 129.
But yeah, Attack Its Weak Point is currently only for invincible enemies that can be only harmed in one spot. But I think it also should be broadened to mean "Any bonus that comes from attacking an enemy's weak point". The current definition should be moved to a subtrope, which would also be a subtrope of Achilles' Heel. Thoughts?
Attack Its Weak Point also only describes itself as applying to bosses. Is that also key to the trope's alleged current definition? Does an Elite Mook not count? Are all the non-game examples invalid?
What it should apply to, IMO, is any case where you deal extra damage by attacking the weak point, as the name suggests and the examples back up. Being completely invulnerable everywhere else is potentially valid as a subtrope.
edited 4th Aug '15 11:27:40 PM by troacctid
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Do all the non-game examples not count? No, I think the Eva ones are right. There are non-game examples that have people fighting enemies that are basically boss monsters with only one weak point.
Mini-bosses are still bosses.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Most of the real life section is just vulnerable points, nothing in RL can truely be the trope I dont think.
No, this isn't a trope that can exist in real life.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
So with the current Critical Hit thread moving and Since the page action Crowner is done. Crowner on title names for the two tropes?
I got Critical Hit Headshot or Critical Headshot for one
And Skillful Headshot or Skillful Sniper Headshot for the other.
edited 16th Dec '15 7:53:26 PM by Memers
Crown Description:
What would be the best way to fix the page?
To be honest, this batch of tropes is a mess.