Opening after a month, but clocking since it looks like a quibble topic.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Both fill a similar role - "Your gender makes you inferior". The direction it is going in isn't really that major of a distinction.
Zzzzzzzzzz
They aren't used differently. The audience isn't expected to react differently. They serve the same basic purpose in the work. There is no reason to make two different tropes for the same thing.
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
It would be nice to at least make the name gender neutral as its is both.
Zzzzzzzzzz
That's why we have gendered redirects. There is no gender neutral term that is anywhere near as clear as Misandry Song / Misogyny Song.
edited 30th Oct '14 6:24:50 AM by Madrugada
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
There may be redirects but that certainly doesn't clear up the name on the page when clicked nor the description and the examples which is written exclusively for one side, the redirect might as well not exist.
And Misandry Songs do exist, heck Britney Spears and Taylor Swift have sung several, but they tend to be a bit different than Misogyny Songs and fall under the radar because they usually do not go to the super extreme as certain Misogyny Songs.
edited 30th Oct '14 8:17:57 AM by Memers
Ugh, there was some big issue I saw when this topic first got posted but I completely forgot what it was because I couldn't post.
Hrm. Hopefully I'll remember before the clock's up.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
When will people get over the fact that English is not a gender neutral language? At least we aren't making this site in any of the romantic languages...
Good night, drive home safely.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
That implies that the songs need to be about both at once, like every other trope name with and in the title.
I don't see how you draw that conclusion.
Anyway, now that I've come up with the perfect name that solves all the problems, make the rename happen!
It's not the "perfect" name at all. Too long and to me it also sounds like it needs to be both about misandry and misogyny. Also, I don't agree with gender parity being a reason for such a rename.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
"to me it also sounds like it needs to be both about misandry and misogyny."
C'mon, people.
Evidently, people disagree with you.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
I think the name might be fine but the description is not, it really needs to have paragraphs for both. The first can cover the males hating females and the 'Bitches and hoes' variety. The woman hating men variety in a second section and explaining how it usually takes the form of a 'Bad Breakup Song and bash all men along the way'
jamespolk - as has already been noted, the naming convention in use on this wiki is that something named "X and Y" requires both X and Y to be present. As such, the comments regarding your proposed title are 100% correct.
Memers - if you feel there should be a paragraph describing how the misandry ones differ, write one to expand upon the note that Madrugada added about them. Also, while you are at it why not add in the examples you cited for Britany Spears and Taylor Swift?
Political ends as sad remains will die
No strong feelings one way or the other about a rename, but I'll suggest Sexism Song or Sexist Song.
Why are parodies, deconstructions and subversions at the top of the examples list?
Not right away, not right away
Sexist and Misandrist/Misogynist are not the same thing. There are many ways to be sexist without either of those two things and it would lead to massive trope decay. No dice.
edited 1st Nov '14 7:08:18 AM by shimaspawn
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Well I dont know the song names, just the news stories surrounding them. And well I not quite sure what is what though with this and with the trope in general, because I could be completely wrong on the subject as well the examples are simply not there as this trope currently isn't even remotely that.
It would have to be YKTT Wed or something then edited in?
&
You guys realize that the word "and" does not work that way in English. If I'm a reporter and I'm writing a story about the 2014 election results next week, if I title my column "Winners And Losers", it does not mean that every candidate I list must have both won and lost. If TV Tropes has such a naming convention then the best thing that can be said is that the naming convention is ungrammatical.
That said, as others have noted above, "sexism" is not a satisfactory name and there is no gender-neutral way to express this concept. If one can't use "and" in the title then one should either split Misandry Song as a separate trope or live with the redirect.
No, I do not realize it. Still unconvinced. And how it's used on the wiki has more importance than off-wiki usage.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
If a list is titled "Comings and Goings", must every entry be both coming and going? "Ups and Downs" must decribe items that are both going up and coming down?
Eh, I vote to make Misandry Song a separate trope, the Distaff Counterpart of Misogyny Song. There's a whole list of Distaff Counterpart tropes, no reason not to make this one.
If they are trope names, yes, because trope names aren't the same thing as work titles. We have our own shorthand for clarity because a lot of the time we're troping the intersection of two separate elements into a single trope.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Well, predictably, this thread became a back and forth debate over the name. I'll make a call that this is not enough useful discussion to leave the thread open now that the clock expired; closing this.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Why is this a redirect to Misogyny Song? Even if misandry and misogyny were literally identical in meaning, were there simply not enough examples to justify making it a separate trope? If that's the case, why is there even a redirect at all?