Mass Effect General Discussion (spoilers)

Y'know, I have the 360 version. The only things on disc one are everything before the end of Freedom's Progress, and everything after the Omega Four Relay.

The Omega recruitments can be done on disc one and disc two.

They do have medals for almost, and they're called silver!

As for the number of squad mates, I'll have to agree with 2 having way too many. I mean, it makes sense, you're trying to build a crack team of the best to go on a suicide mission, but the sheer number of them just went and made it overwhelming.

edited 20th Apr '15 11:11:28 AM by ITNW1989

Hitokiri in the streets, daishouri in the sheets.

Oh, I was led to believe that the breaking point was Horizon, my apologices.

Add me to the "2 had too many squadmates" list. Quality over quantity all the way. I'll take 7 well developed partners over 12 squadmates that almost only address Shepard any day.

edited 20th Apr '15 12:25:26 PM by Elbruno

"Yeah, it's a shame. Here we are in an underground cave with all these lasers, and instead of having a rave we're using it for evil."

13 we if include Morinth.

edited 20th Apr '15 12:39:21 PM by VeryMelon

Gimme 12 squadmates who interact with each other.

The 2 cast managed to do that in 3, so it is not impossible.

Admittedly, they did it in a story whose focus was characters interacting with each other.

edited 20th Apr '15 12:55:25 PM by Elbruno

"Yeah, it's a shame. Here we are in an underground cave with all these lasers, and instead of having a rave we're using it for evil."

2 had too many characters. I have already mentioned the characters I don't care about. Maybe you could add Samara and Kasumi to that list for the sake of economy and avoiding redundant abilities.

When the time comes for my canon shepard to start recruiting, I'm only going to do the missions for the characters SHE cares about for whatever reason.

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I'm willing to cut 2 slack for not being 3. My problem isn't that it didn't have the level of squadmate interactions that 3 had. My problem is it didn't even feel like it was up to 1's level. Considering the game was all about building a team, 2 should've had way more inter-party dialogue than 1. They dropped the ball there.

And then 3 came along and just blew it out of the water. Tali drunk-calling Javik. Garrus showing Legion how to really calibrate a gun. Vega and Cortez debating which is better between the Mako and the Hammerhead.

And then Citadel came along and was just about the best thing ever.

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Too bad most of the party members in 3 sucked and any one or two party members in 2 had more development and personality. 2 had quality AND quantity.

Jack and Miranda can live in bubbles in entirely different galaxies from the other squadmates and I'd still like them more than James or EDI.

EDI was such shameless fanservice that her mere existence drags down 3's squad.

I find it startling when people shit on 2's plot, especially compared to 1'S. 1 was practically a Cliché Storm and I remember how my eyes rolled out of my head at the end when Shepard had to go and be a "screw the rules, I'm doing what's right" cop because that's how cliche stories go. Following the rules is bad, politicians are dumb, only cops and soldiers have a clue how to save the world.

As for ME 1's squad, Spooky said it best - they were all just expositionbots there to explain their race's culture.

edited 20th Apr '15 6:14:41 PM by Nikkolas

I really dislike how much everyone hates politics in the Mass Effect series as a whole. I love politics, personally. In fact, Shepard's diplomatic actions in ME 3 are some of my favorites, and being able to act out on whatever attitude I had and suffering consequences for my actions is my favorite part. I wish I could play as a political person in Mass Effect, but for some reason the story says "no, you can't do that, politics are always bad" while turning around and making me act as a politician anyway.

But honestly, every single story in the Mass Effect series is deeply flawed. Not a single game's story can be called excellent or great. It's just good, a decent story to lead you through the world and become invested in playing the game. It has great moments, it has shit moments, and the shit moments sometimes overshadow the great ones (compare the original ME 3 ending to the Tuchanka Arc in the same game).

edited 20th Apr '15 6:17:52 PM by CalamityJane

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The biggest issue with 2 is that it had so much focus on doing crew member missions that it was just an isolated bunch of stories. Individually they are fine, even with so many family issues (reminds me of Dr. Cox from Scrubs "Every parent does considerable emotional damage, I hear it's one of the funnest things about BEING a parent."), but there is so little follow-through with these stories within the game itself. Some get followed up in 3, but with each mission as a mini-story it has no chance to leave a big impact. In 1 most of the side missions were multi-stage, becoming harder each time, and having something of a story to it. Like the Cerberus rogue VI that later became EDI.

In terms of plot relevant missions in 2 (besides minimum number of recruits to move the story along) once you have full control of the Normandy the only ones I can remember are going back to the Citadel to be reinstated as a Spectre, saving the colony where you meet the Virmire survivor, raiding the Reaper corpse and assaulting the Collector base. Sure, you have some cool locations like Illium, Omega and Tuchanka, but that is quite a drop from ME 1, which has you get Liara on Therum, and then have massive amounts of distinct but connected stories on each planet like the Rachni on Noveria, the Thorian of Feros, then Saren on Virmire.

I'm pretty sure you could actually skip the Citadel completely in 2. I might be wrong, but I think you can also skip Illium, if you want. I think you get three or four missions, after Horizon, before the Collector Ship. Most people are going to to the Illium recruitment missions, obviously, but I'm pretty sure you could do Loyalty missions instead, without ever setting foot on Illium. Tuchanka is another hub world that can easily be skipped.

So of the four hub worlds, three can be skipped completely. And doing so has absolutely no bearing on the story, since not a single one of the missions on any of the three worlds has any actual ties to the main story.

2 has no narrative.

Even with sidequests, 1 actually did make an effort to give most of them some sort of narrative. 2's sidequests are just a matter of scanning a planet, going down, shooting people, and leaving, with no dialogue at any point during the mission, with nothing setting up the mission beforehand, and nothing following the mission. In 1, you'd get something like a guy asking you to look for his brother's freighter, then you'd kill pirates, and then you'd go back to let him know what you found. Boom, you've got a narrative to the sidequest. Not much of one, but enough to give you an emotional investment in it.

2 is easily my least favourite of the trilogy. It's the one I find the least enjoyable to replay. 1 has weak combat, and the side planets get pretty repetitive. But it has a cool story, it has interesting characters who aren't constantly angsting about their parents, it has Wrex - it's still got a lot of qualities I enjoy. 3 has the best combat, the best squadmate interactions, the best NPC background dialogue. 2 has intermediate combat - better than 1, worse than 3 - it has no narrative, it has the weakest squadmate interaction, it has the cheesiest romances, it has the angstiest squad. It even took away the option of exploring planets, in favour of just getting you in and out as quickly as possible.

2 is the weakest of the trilogy.

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You just explained my stance on the games infinitely better than I ever could.

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In your opinion. But, personally, there are plenty of games whose storylines I find at least as compelling as my favourite movie or TV series. It all depends on what you want out of your narratives.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."

Is there something wrong with stating my opinion? I find much of Mass Effect's story to be mediocre. The great parts are phenomenal, yes, but the majority of the series is dull and tedious (the sidequests in ME1, our discussion of ME2's storyline, and quite a lot about ME3).

edited 20th Apr '15 9:26:50 PM by CalamityJane

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Nothing wrong with stating your opinion, but you've stated it like four times now, and every time you presented it as an absolute.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."

I sometimes feel like Bioware should stick to adapting other people's I Ps since they keep retconning their own that much :P I mean, since they own the setting they do whatever they feel like even if it doesn't make sense in setting and then they come up with reason how that is possible

Like seriously, reviving someone from dead with ridiculous amount of cash :P There isn't even storywise really a need for Shepard to die

edited 20th Apr '15 9:37:59 PM by SpookyMask

I honestly feel ME 3 was the best all around, gameplay, graphics and basic narrative structure had a polish you could see yourself in. Its' primary flaw is the colossal stumble with the original endings, mitigated heavily by the extended cut.

The reality is that there is so much personal choice involved with the games that the fandom came to believe THEY were in charge of the outcome. The game has always railroaded choices so that you can select a path to take, but you were never in control of the consequences.

ME 1 had the best story, though. The mystery of what Saren was doing, what Sovereign is and when you find Vigil and learn the whole story... so epic.

"Rather than giving you the illusion of free choice, I will take the liberty of choosing for you, if and when your time comes again."

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So you guys have any comment on ME 4 survey stuff?

I've kinda gotten bored of talking about old games in series since Bioware isn't really gonna improve their writing style :P

edited 21st Apr '15 4:28:32 AM by SpookyMask

ME 4 got its own thread, for spoiler containment or something like that.

Not looking forwards to the Mako, unless solidly improved. Still, I'd get a smile out of being able to choose between the Mako or the Hammerhead, if that becomes a thing.

I'd rather a third pop up, called the Bull or the Whale, or the Great White.

They do have medals for almost, and they're called silver!

Thresher would be good, if it wasn't taken already.

I can imagine that conversation...

They do have medals for almost, and they're called silver!