General Japanese Culture Thread

@The Handle The Sengoku Basara depictions of them (and every other person from that era come to think of it) were particularly, gloriously over the top.

Nioh by contrast depicts them with a bit more nuance and realism, supernatural powers fueled by Green Rocks aside.

edited 15th May '17 3:27:57 AM by M84

When it comes to those two, however, the historical record alone hands you so much awesome to bounce off.

Unlike figures such as... Kira Yoshinaka and Asano Naganori... who, in their case, certainly triggered a chain of awesome, but both were pretty much just right gits with few redeeming features beyond being fairly court-standard backstabbers and dedicated tax collectors (is that a positive?).

edited 15th May '17 3:43:47 AM by Euodiachloris

I know!

Admittedly, my favourite Japanese cultural figures are folk heroes such as Yoshitsune and Yorimitsu (the Heian Handyman). While real people, it's almost impossible to separate them from their legends which gives them an air of mystery. Also since I'm really interested in the early days of the samurai.

I don't know why samurai remain so popular when all period pieces show them being violent gangsters with self esteem issues.

The same applies to the Yakuza, especially after Battles Without Honor And Humanity.

edited 15th May '17 3:45:17 AM by TheHandle

I'm a sucker for Nezumi tales, me.

TBF, those swords and armor are pretty cool. And they have one of the most hardcore ritual suicides ever.

That's because they are a warrior caste with plenty of mystique built around them. People often ignore the realities of such a caste in society and war.

Or more generally, they forget that samurai are people too.

edited 15th May '17 3:52:34 AM by TerminusEst

Gotta get back, back to the past...

Admittedly, some form of dark fantasy version of Heian period war and politics would be fun. A Nioh but a thousand years in the past.

I'm generally against washing the blood away. Yorimitsu/Raikou was the Fujiwara hatchetman and Yoshitsune's story has dark turns as well.

edited 15th May '17 4:15:44 AM by TerminusEst

That entire period makes the Seven Kingdoms look amusingly gauche: it has everything with its political machinations, poetry, hypocrisy, mismanagement, genuine religious fervour, counter-cultures, ethnic cleansing and more normal battles. And, some really stunning clothes and the most frivolous pastimes.

edited 15th May '17 5:20:59 AM by Euodiachloris

Nioh is a good thing. I mean, in recent years, it seems only westerners create serious Japanese-themed games or contain Japanese-theme in it.

The Heian period is one of the most interesting periods in Japanese history, I feel like. It's not for everyone, but the aesthetics and sensibilities are pretty impressive - in fact, 'aesthetics and sensibilities' pretty much defines everything anyone in the Capital cared about.

Sei Shonagon's my girl though.

re:social attitudes towards Japanese disabled from war

What's the exact argument used to justify such condescending attitudes? Is it part of the whole bushido schick of being considered more honorable and saving of face to die in an armed conflict than to cowardly survive it with a missing limb?

Your body was gifted to you by your parents, so damage to it (even through events completely out of your control) is considered to be an insult to them. Dying would be preferable. There's also an element of being seen as merely a burden.

This is a far older attitude than Meiji Restoration "bushido" ever was. Combination of Confucian (filial piety) and Buddhist (your life is not yours alone) thinking.

edited 15th May '17 7:32:54 AM by TerminusEst

Also Shinto: certain forms of damage make you perennially ritually impure (depending on the ritual and the Kami). So many more hoops to jump through to be tolerated... And, always the lurking belief that damage outside mirrors weakness inside. :/

edited 15th May '17 7:47:23 AM by Euodiachloris

Between the three "great unifiers" of Japan I would agree Nobunaga comes to me as the most sympathetic. He even had a black guy on his payroll. Diversity!

The figure I have most interest though is the Christian Samurai Dom Justo Takayama.

Oh yeah, forgot about Shinto. Extricating the three in Japan is an exercise in futility.

Nobunaga has never really come off as a guy who particularly cared where someone is from, but rather were they any good at what they did.

And, if what they did was efficient, effective, novel... and cool.

Let's face it, Oda was a bit of a geek. Also... way ahead of his time. Japan started catching up to him around the Meiji.

edited 15th May '17 8:47:00 AM by Euodiachloris

Nobunaga? Isn't he portrayed as a Vatican-sacking baby-eating psycho of absolute evil?

It's Sengoku Basara. Any resemblance to the actual historical figures is a pure coincidence.

The reasons for his demonization are pretty simple; he was not bound by convention. His...unique personality, coupled with ruthless pragmatism did not win him any fans in the clergy (whom he despised), ruling elite (whom he also despised) and many of those who suffered his wrath, deserved or not.

I think it should stressed he wasn't exactly nice. Nor could he afford to be.

edited 15th May '17 9:13:18 AM by TerminusEst

[delurk]

I think I read somewhere that the representation of Nobunaga as villain or hero depends on how right leaning the country is at the time

[relurk]

He was a warlord. Media seems to always forget that.

edited 15th May '17 9:29:33 AM by TerminusEst

All feudal lords were warlords. Then one of them won and suddenly they had to become bureaucrats.