For the Finns on this board: Finnish Elves for a Dickensian fantasy

So in the project I'm drafting right now the story is based on Oliver Twist with elements of the story of Kullervo in The Kalevala although it's set in a heavily alternate Dickensian and far-future Iceland. Oliver kills Mrs. Sowerberry's counterpart and runs away to Reykjavik. You can guess what happens next with a Darker and Edgier Oliver.

On to the subject of this thread. I have an idea that Mrs. Sowerberry's analogue would be an elf, (thanks Peccantis for the indirect inspiration) probably because the unnamed "Sampo Maiden" was beautiful and otherworldly, and the Kalevala is Finnish and influenced Tolkien. Since Tolkien's High Elves/Noldorin speak a Finnish-based language (Quenya) alongside a Welsh-based language, I decided to take it a step further and give these Elves a Finnish-inspired culture. I mean, Elves who can cast spells by singing?

The problem is that I have no idea where to start with this aspect of it. So to Finnish tropers; what are some important things to know about Finnish culture (and maybe some interesting touches I could add?)

edited 13th May '14 1:01:32 AM by MorwenEdhelwen

I have some difficulties in grasping what you are doing. Mixing those elemens takes.. well I don't know which organs, but something.

Are you mostly interested in:

1) Pre-christian finnish culture and folklore Not much is really known, because there is no written history of pre-christian finland and poems and stories were gathered really late (in 19th century). Contrast this to scandinavian and icelandic folklore like edda and early sagas, that were written around 1200-1300, if memory serves me right. I am not sure how familiar you are of finnish folklore, but obviously you know the basics (sampo, singing and so on...). Anyway one thing many forget is the importance of origin or birth of things (synty in finnish). Spellsinger should know how something was born, to be able to control it. (True name was important as well. Finns have got many names for a bear, because it was dangerous to say the true name of bear "karhu") So magical singing was as much about knowledge as music. Also it seems that finnish heroes tend to be more shamans than warriors.

2) Traditional finnish culture Finnish culture has always been fairly down to earth. There are several reasons. There has never been a true finnish nobility (or they were distroyed by invading swedes around 1100, we do not know) Finland was mainly rural for a long time. Even if Finland today is really hightech, Finnish industry and urban culture are very young. Social status has never been very important in Finland. At least when you compare it to other european nations. Of course rich were rich and poor were poor, Finland is no utopy Most important thing was traditionally farm-owning. Like in old Iceland there was a gap between farm-owners and poorer people. They still were farmers, not real land-owning elite. So traditional finnish feel is rural, and more like Icelandic, than dickensian. (for me anyway…) For me wooded landscape and lakes are important for a finnish feel, but that won't transfere to Iceland.

Traditionally finns value things like honesty, hard work, co-operation, practicality and nature. It is okay to be intoverted and taciturn, silence can be seen as a mark of wisdom. (oversimplifications and stereotypes of course...)

3) Modern finnish culture and stereotypes Actually I just wrote about stereotypes... Anyway Finns are moody, sometimes violent and drink too much. For some reason suicide is really common in finland. (There are three suicides in Kalevala, so it is even a tradition…) On a positive note. Finnish women are strong. (I am married to one, I know…) At one time president, prime minister and speaker of the parliament were all women. Finnish women got their woting right early - first in europe, I think. Mistress of a finnish farmhouse was (and still is) a formidable person. There are several really cool female characters in Kalevala. Louhi Lemminkäinen's mother, who brings her son back from the dead (including stiching him together after he was cut to pieces. Annikki, Ilmarinen's sister. She is a minor character, but Väinämöinen (the great spellsinger) tries to fool her and fails.

I got to folklore again… By the way, real hard-core folklore enthusiasts do not like Kalevala, because it was so heavily edited by Elias Lönnroth. The real deal are the gathered shorter poems.

This was an odd wall of text. I hope it was of some help. It was surprisingly difficult to write it in english. I am sorry for grammar and spelling, I am just too lazy to check them well.

I'm happy to answer questions and give comments as a finn, who has some knowledge of scandinavian folklore and sagas as well. (I Know older sagas better, than the more fantastic ones. Laxdaela and Egill's saga are my favorites)

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I don't know whether to take that first sentence as a compliment or an insult.

Re: traditionally rural farm-owning societies:

Yes, but IIRC in about the thirteenth century certain families (the Sturlungar, Asbirningar, Oddverjar, Haukdaelir and Vestfirdingar and Svinfellingar) gained a lot of individual power and basically became the closest thing Iceland had to a nobility. If a few things (understatement) were changed from IRL I don't think it would be implausible that Iceland could become the Scandinavian equivalent of 19th century Britain. In my fantasy setting it's much larger and remained independent (and has an Elective Monarchy and was inhabited before the Norse arrived).

Short explanation: This story is an attempt to retell Oliver Twist as a fantasy in a context as superficially different from Victorian England as possible, but similar enough for a fascination with all things Norse to grow during that period. Connections between Iceland and Britain go way back— and it's not implauible IMO that if the Medieval Warm Period had lasted and the early Greenland colony survived (and there had been a lot more natural resources), Iceland might have been richer from the fishing and whaling and wool trade. If it remained independent somehow, it might have had a chance to expand into colonisation. All of those things are a part of the world of the story concept. So in-universe Icelanders have this sense of superiority to other Scandinavian countries and overt racism against non-Whites and non-humans is common.

Re: cultural aspects

Two and Three are mostly what I'm interested in.

edited 14th May '14 5:36:16 PM by MorwenEdhelwen

What I wrote was not a true compliment, but it was not an insult.

I just meant, that you are trying something difficult. I would not dare to try. Finns are blunt.

The fact I don't understand something doesn't make it bad. I can't see the mixture of sagas and Dickens work, but if YOU can see it you may be able to create something memorable.

If I didn't wish you succeed, Iwouldn't have posted.

But back to finnish culture

Mostly it is like other nordic cultures.

I understood, you are going to put the finnish inspired characters to the middle strata of society. I think it feels right. On the jarl-karl-thrall scale only jarl feels odd. Finnish culture is culture of commoners.

Poverty is also a very familiar theme for finns. Finland was a poor country only few generation ago. You could say it is a part for the finnish national narrative. Taking care of those who need help is important to finns.

On the other hand:

Ken ei työtä tee, sen ei syömänkään pidä. free translation One, who does not work, should not eat.

a finnish saying.

I'll try to think of some little curiosities, you could use.

If some weapon is finnish, it is a knife. (Single edged tool/weapon)

We don't wear shoes at home.

Ah, OK. Thanks for the explanation.

On this:

My background's Chinese Malaysian and that's also a Chinese thing.

Just as a note, Finnish mythology is nowhere NEAR the only one that equates magical abilities with singing/music. It's a very common concept amongst pre-Christian belief systems, especially the animistic types.

Exactly. it appears occasionally in Norse saga themselves with "galdrar" or rune chants.

There's also the Celts, the Greeks, and some Native tribes.

Finns have a peculiar naturalistic way of viewing the world. We are a huge lot more relaxed with nudity than pretty much any other culture I can name (save, perhaps, for the Japanese). We snicker at the infamous Super Bowl Nipple Incident and don't really understand why foreigners insist on wearing swimsuits to sauna (and depending on the hosts, there might actually be no entry to the sauna wearing one, either).

A great deal of us also has a soul-bond to nature and need to visit the countryside or the woods a few times a year to really feel rested. There is a certain people-wide feeling of holiness associated to forests and lakes especially, just like the sauna. In such places, one must not be loud or in other ways "disturb". The definition of "loud" actually tends to cover any volume above the gentlest of conversational tones. I think the respect for natural places and the sauna is a remnant of Pre-Christian times.

To be fair, most Americans barely noticed the Nipple incident until the news started making a racket about it.

@peccantis: Thanks for that information.