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East Asia News & Politics Thread: China, South Korea, Japan...

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Quag15 Since: Mar, 2012
#1101: Jul 28th 2015 at 7:08:28 PM

China’s Elegant, Flawed, Grand Strategy. The article is fairly long, so I'm just gonna quoteblock a small part:

China’s Long-Term Goals

The CCP considers foreign policy directly related to maintaining domestic stability and regime survival. Chinese Scholar Ye Zicheng expressed the nationalist sentiment: “If China does not become a world power, the rejuvenation of the Chinese nation will be incomplete. Only when it becomes a world power can we say that the total rejuvenation of the Chinese nation has been achieved.” This has become widely accepted among both common and elite Chinese citizens. To maintain control of Chinese nationalism, and to channel it as a source of legitimacy for the regime, the CCP has established the two concepts of “core interests” and a “new type of great power relationship.”

The 2011 Chinese White Paper “China’s Peaceful Development,” lists the six core Chinese interests as 1) state sovereignty; 2) national security; 3) territorial integrity; 4) national reunification; 5) China’s political system established by the Constitution and overall social stability; 6) basic safeguards for ensuring sustainable economic and social development. The concept of core interests is how the CCP signals the issues it is willing to go to war over. In the past, Chinese spokespeople have referred to both contested South and East China Sea territorial claims as core interests, but officially at least, the CCP has maintained ambiguity about their status. Still, the CCP has been clear that it considers its territorial claims to be sovereign Chinese territory, so maintaining these claims would fall under the core interests listed in the 2011 White Paper. In addition, in contrast to the ambiguity of its maritime claims, the CCP has been clear that Taiwan is a core interest, and it is unwilling to rule out the use of force to reunify China.

China’s pursuit of its core interests has the potential to trigger great power rivalry or conflict with the United States and other regional powers. This is why in 2010 then Chinese President Hu Jintao told U.S. President Barack Obama that “China and the United States should respect each other’s core interests and major concerns. This is key to the healthy and stable development of bilateral ties.” Current Chinese President Xi Jinping has articulated a similar concept in his vision for a “new type of great-power relationship” between China and the United States. This slogan has now become commonplace in Chinese official speeches and media when describing the U.S.-China relationship. Together, the concepts of “core interests” and a “new type of great power relationship,” demonstrate the CCP’s vision of China’s future. In this vision, China and the United States will enjoy an equal relationship with clearly defined core interests that the other will not interfere with. This will result in China assuming a preeminent place in Asia, with a large sphere of influence encompassing much of the South and East China Seas, and a reunification with Taiwan.

edited 28th Jul '15 7:08:39 PM by Quag15

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#1102: Jul 28th 2015 at 8:48:24 PM

Reuters investigates the treatment of foreign workers in Subaru's supply chain.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#1103: Jul 28th 2015 at 11:44:33 PM

[up]

The use of foreign workers from Asia as cheap labour is common in many industries. They'll get booted out of the country after all perceived worth has been taken out of them.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#1104: Aug 1st 2015 at 9:00:11 PM

There are protests in Japan comparing prime minister Abe to Hitler... with signs saying "Japan Democracy" with Hitler-like face of Abe on it.

How did it get this bad? It would make sense for a nation to have control over its military, but once the populace is used to a peace constitution, they don't want to let go of it and get dragged into more wars. I'm starting to think that US and the Western Allies mishandled Japan after WWII.

Kayeka Since: Dec, 2009
#1105: Aug 1st 2015 at 10:02:35 PM

[up]Well, I guess that's a hindsight kinda deal, though I definitely think that it wasn't right to deny a nation a sovereign right for the rest of time like that.

And yeah, I totally get where the Japanese people are coming from. Nobody likes getting dragged into wars that have nothing to do with the safety of their own country.

TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#1106: Aug 1st 2015 at 10:19:46 PM

Japan's security was mishandled the moment Article 9 was instituted.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
Ominae Since: Jul, 2010
#1107: Aug 2nd 2015 at 12:05:13 AM

The Allied Forces did that as a security guarantee. I remember Germany was handed that too for a while before the Cold War forced the West Germans to rearm themselves.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#1108: Aug 2nd 2015 at 7:44:01 AM

Makes me wonder why that didn't happen to Japan too. They were and are still too close to the (now former) Soviet bloc for comfort, arguably even more so than Germany was/is (there were buffer states between the USSR proper and West Germany; Japan was just across the small sea from the USSR proper and its then-staunch ally the PRC).

edited 2nd Aug '15 7:45:00 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Silasw Since: Mar, 2011
#1109: Aug 2nd 2015 at 7:48:47 AM

We had South Korea to do that with, plus due to the kind of conflict likely being one at sea rather then one at land there wasn't the same need to make sure you had lots of bodies to throw at the problem.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#1110: Aug 2nd 2015 at 9:23:44 AM

[up]Yeah, the American navy could have protected Japan but there was nothing to do but fight the Red Army in West Germany had WW3 broken out. So rearming Germany made more sense than Japan.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#1111: Aug 2nd 2015 at 11:13:07 AM

The National Police Agency of Japan is suggesting that the Yakuza are evolving.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
SabresEdge Show an affirming flame from a defense-in-depth Since: Oct, 2010
Show an affirming flame
#1112: Aug 2nd 2015 at 12:42:35 PM

And it's worth noting that the JMSDF was and still is a pretty powerful force to be reckoned with. Like West Germany, the prevailing sense was "we don't want to fight, but if we have to we'll be ready".

Charlie Stross's cheerful, optimistic predictions for 2017, part one of three.
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#1113: Aug 2nd 2015 at 6:42:47 PM

The end of engagement Since its historic rapprochement with Beijing in the 1970s, America has approached a rising China with an “engagement” strategy guided by two key assumptions: first, that political liberalization would ultimately follow economic growth; and second, that supporting China’s integration into the global order would preempt Beijing from forcibly challenging that order. While confidence in those assumptions has waxed and waned, never did a consensus emerge that they were fundamentally flawed—until now.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
Ominae Since: Jul, 2010
#1115: Aug 5th 2015 at 6:23:49 PM

Today's the day of the Hiroshima bombing anniversary. Abe was the main guest who said in a speech with plans to get nukes abolished...

TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#1116: Aug 6th 2015 at 12:00:45 AM

[up]

Which is something Japan has been on about for a long time. Meaning nothing will change.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#1117: Aug 6th 2015 at 4:41:02 AM

For some reason I get really pissed around this time of year. It seems like the Japanese government is trying to guilt trip everyone, and revise their history so that we are the evil imperialists, and they the noble persecuted nation. Want to know the difference between them and the Germans? I think many, if not most in Japanese society, still think their cause was just. It seems like they want to avoid war not because of how much the atrocities their army, navy, and air forces committed, but because of how much damage was wrought to them. The victims of the Nanjing massacre couldn't fold paper cranes before they died, and they died in ways so graphic that it cannot be told to children, which is why they will be forgotten, and everyone will grow to accept Japan's revisionist bullshit.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
editerguy from Australia Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#1118: Aug 6th 2015 at 5:09:56 AM

[up]That doesn't mean the people who suffered due to the Hiroshima bombing shouldn't commemorate their loss.

I agree with you about revisionism and so forth, but in any case, the survivors of Hiroshima aren't necessarily revisionists or believers in the Japanese Empire.

JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#1119: Aug 6th 2015 at 5:13:17 AM

[up] I know, it's just a feeling I get every time my school or some other place trots out the thing. It probably doesn't help that in model UN the foreign students,both in and out of simulation, will not shut up about how America is the only nation to ever use an atomic bomb. In addition, remembering this, while Japans crimes are being forgotten, at least in America, will lead to Japan being viewed as somehow right in it's mad quest to dominate Asia.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#1120: Aug 6th 2015 at 5:15:21 AM

[up]Not while the Chinese Communist Party has anything to say about that, I think. Getting the more easily swayed parts of the Chinese population into a frenzy of anti-Japanese sentiment or against the "foreign threat" du jour has been and will be a reliable source of political capital for them.

It's kind of odd to see Hong Kong and Malaysian newspaper columnists decry the bombings as unwarranted acts of disproportionate cruelty or done For Science! considering that Japanese war crimes certainly happened in both places, although that could be naivete or a desire to stick it to the US on their part.

And really, what did the survivors of the US incendiary bombing campaign feel about their plight being overshadowed by that of Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
murazrai Since: Jan, 2010
#1121: Aug 6th 2015 at 5:31:24 AM

[up]I'd say it's their way to say "just because they commit atrocities against us does not mean you can do the same to them", something which I agree of. After all, two wrongs do not make a right.

AngelusNox The law in the night from somewhere around nothing Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
The law in the night
#1122: Aug 6th 2015 at 5:36:29 AM

Remembering Hiroshima

Hiroshima: Where the worst-case scenario came to passnote 

[down]I'm just sneering at AJE title choices when it comes to their Hiroshima articles, since the Operation Downfall was on the table and it involved a ground invasion combined with tactical use of nukes which would result in millions of casualities, calling the atomic bombings the worst case scenario is a bit dishonest.

edited 6th Aug '15 5:52:26 AM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#1123: Aug 6th 2015 at 5:46:25 AM

[up] And what's that supposed to mean? That it would not have happened.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
AngelusNox The law in the night from somewhere around nothing Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
The law in the night
#1124: Aug 6th 2015 at 5:55:33 AM

China appeals for U.S. help to fight Xinjiang militants

China has appealed for U.S. support in fighting Islamist militants in the far western Chinese region of Xinjiang, saying they are also a threat to the United States.

Chinese officials say the East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM) recruits Uighurs, a largely Muslim ethnic minority from Xinjiang, and trains them with extremists in Syria and Iraq, with the intent of returning to China to wage holy war.

Many foreign experts, however, have questioned whether ETIM exists as the coherent group China claims it is.

The threat of terror grows "more complicated and severe by the day", China's Foreign Ministry said late on Tuesday, following a meeting between Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Cheng Guoping and Tina Kaidanow, Ambassador-At-Large for the U.S. State Department's Bureau of Counterterrorism.

"China stressed the serious threat of ETIM and other East Turkestan terror organizations to China, the United States and the international community, and requested that the United States vigorously support and coordinate with China in combating the efforts of East Turkestan terrorism forces," the ministry said.

Both sides agreed to combat cyber terrorism and violent extremism and strengthen anti-terrorism intelligence, it added.

Hundreds, perhaps thousands, of Uighurs, have illegally crossed the Chinese border in recent years, traveling to Turkey via Southeast Asia.

Rights groups say such migrants are fleeing ethnic violence in Xinjiang and Chinese controls on their religion and culture, allegations Beijing denies.

Hundreds of people have died in unrest in Xinjiang in the last three years, blamed by Beijing on Islamist militants. But Chinese officials have offered little evidence that the violence is linked to ETIM, which Washington deemed a terror group after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

Well that is interesting.

Inter arma enim silent leges
Nohbody "In distress", my ass. from Somewhere in Dixie Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
"In distress", my ass.
#1125: Aug 6th 2015 at 6:17:27 AM

AJE [...] dishonest

Yeah, that's never happened before in their coverage of the US... tongue

As for the annual outrage about the atomic bombings, almost no one wants to look like the "bad guys" (ISIS being a current exception, judging from reports in the relevant OTC threads), and two individual bombs causing 400K+ casualties stands out a lot more than things like the poorly documented Nanking massacre, where the commonly accepted casualty rates for noncombatants range from 40K to 200K, that happened over the span of several months.

All your safe space are belong to Trump

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