General Autism Discussion

They probably have some qualms about people not buying them being autistic if their autism is more subtle or they have a different personality type. Reality Is Unrealistic, I guess.

But yeah it's utter bollocks. Most of the autistic people I've met are actually quite warm and passionate. I really don't know where the idea that we're supposed to essentially be vulcans from Star Trek came from.

It's one thing to be accidentally rude or insensitive (which is something regular people do all the time), it's quite another to just be a stuck up dick.

edited 7th Nov '17 8:11:49 PM by Draghinazzo

I agree that subtle autism may be something the audience wouldn't believe in, but what if it's portrayed in such a way that we heavily see the character's struggles?

Like for example, we have a female character who we see actually going in front of a mirror and practicing facial expressions (something many females on the spectrum have said that they've done), trying to learn what the right thing is to say at the right time, and going out and using those skills. Said character could also be shown being nice and friendly, trying to be, but sometimes screwing it up badly, and wondering why. Show those struggles. Portray them from the character's end.

It could make for a compelling drama, and also really teach the audience a lot about the more subtle forms of autism that are harder to detect, that don't fit the "blunt dude" stereotype.

I suspect the reason for going for the more well-known forms of it is due to those more well-known forms supposedly making for better television. It's not just that that's what the audience is more likely to have heard of, but also because obvious autism is likely seen as making for a show that will appeal to a wider audience.

I think what appeals to audiences the most is most likely story formats they are familiar with. The skilled but struggling underdog, desperately trying to get their skills noticed and accepted (The Good Doctor). A teenager's quest for love (Atypical). There's a reason those two shows are popular. I suspect that in order to succeed, a story about subtle autism in someone who's very social and trying to be very friendly would have to fit a familiar format.

Stories about other forms of autism, particularly of characters who are more social and outgoing, exist in novels written by autistics. disabilityinkidlit.com has quite a few examples there. But such books don't take off, and are likely read by few overall.

I think I’ve mentioned my pet theory about Luna Lovegood from Harry Potter before, though I suspect that that’s in part due to how I’ve seen some fanfics portray her.

So Bonsai brought up a play about autism and it reminded me of another, older one.

Back in 1986, one Tom Griffin wrote The Boys Next Door, a one-act play about social worker Jack Palmer, who watches over four men who are clearly disabled (though the play never specifies which ones). Two of them are essentially "low-functioning autistic," one's either a Hollywood Aspie or Obsessive-Compulsive, and the 4th is schizophrenic. For the most part, it plays them in a sympathetic light, though it does occasionally use their disorders for jokes.

Found this blog I'm really liking, called "Neurodivergent K". It's at timetolisten.blogspot.com. "Time to listen". Says basically what the blog is about. Time to listen to autistic adults and what they have to say, not just to the parents of children with autism. Most of us are, after all, adults.

Not only are the blog posts great, but so are many of the comments:

EDIT: Now that I've read more of the posts, I'd say this blog is rather hit or miss. Some of the posts are very insightful, while other posts are basically "I'm very angry", without much insight, which is not very productive. For example, her posts about "people hate autistic adults and find them burdens". That sucks, but I prefer to read something that provides insight at the very least, rather than simply complaining about a problem that we all agree sucks.

She also sometimes lashes out in the comments section at people who are simply asking her to clarify things, or who disagree politely, and accusing everyone of hating and looking down on autistics. It's painful to read. However, there's some real good posts in there too, that are indeed insightful. It is, though, a very bitter and angry blog.

For another insightful blog that is not bitter and angry, but does explain things very well, I might suggest Kirsten Lindsmith's blog. We've chatted a few times before as well in e-mail and on Facebook chat.

edited 11th Nov '17 4:38:43 PM by BonsaiForest

I've recently been facing a completely different kind of parental problem.

My mother is supposedly on the spectrum as well, or at least she strongly suspects it's true. She used to have a lot of weird telltale signs when she was younger, though she passes real easily now as a NT after years of practice.

The thing is at this point after years of piling up bitterness (from just life in general and my own lack of success in life) she's not very understanding of my difficulties. She's always belittling me and making me feel inadequate when i don't do what she expects me to do in the exact way she expects me to do it.

In some sense i understand since i have a lot of flaws and limitations but she never shows me any compassion anymore and expects that her making me feel shitty will result in improvement, when in fact it's just making me hate her.

It didn't used to be this way either. She was a lot nicer to me like 5 years ago or so, after she divorced my dad i thought our relationship had really improved and i could trust her, she was there for me 3 years ago when i suffered through a breakup that left me completely emotionally destroyed.

Honestly it really breaks my heart because i dont think its going to get any better. This isnt just my opinion either, both my siblings have noticed and think she's been real shitty to me the last few years. My brother has confronted her multiple times and even asked her to talk about me in therapy, only to be told it's "none of [his] business". This is before i get into the awful way she's treated both of them individually too, my brother got fed up and moved out months ago but i don't have the resources to do that so i'm stuck with an emotionally abusive parent.

I'm dawning on me that she's never gonna truly respect me or accept that i'm not the kind person she wishes i was and it really makes me sad.

Damn, Drag. That's sad to hear. She has autism but seems bitter that your autism has caused you problems, and she doesn't want to acknowledge that?

It really sucks. So many people have a problem of some sort that they don't want to acknowledge. Something they could change about themselves, which in some cases seems like it would be easy to change (like, "recognize that your adult child has the same mental condition that you do, but it manifests differently, and try to be more understanding of it"), and yet they don't.

edited 11th Nov '17 4:06:20 PM by BonsaiForest

My online friend showed me this series of charts showing the different communication styles used in business in countries around the world.

What sticks out to me is that nearly every country's business communication style has a "bullshit phase", where the negotiating parties argue, until they end up making concessions, or "restating" what they want, until eventually they're at least somewhat satisfied.

It's inevitable, isn't it? In many of the countries, people are not upfront about what they want, and will often hide the full extent of what they want, only to reveal it later when negotiating, or they'll bring up something unreasonable and then negotiate it down, or whatever. It's never as simple as ask for something in exchange for money (or whatever), and then get it. Business is a dance, a game, a bullshitting contest of sorts.

I wonder how different it would be if autistics were the ones making business proposals. We have a reputation for being straightforward (at least, autism researchers and those familiar with the subject know us that way). Are we really? Would we be, in business?

Depends exactly who you'd be asking to negotiate. Leave me in charge and you're still getting the normal wrangling. Kind of obvious when the value or cost of something isn't a fixed non-negotiable point. Whole foundation of currency.

Though that chart sounds like the UK. What is directness.

edited 11th Nov '17 10:07:59 PM by RainehDaze

Speaking of business proposals, I had a customer who likes me to the point that he will only place orders from me, precisely because of my straightforwardness.

He represents a very old-schoolish kind of customer who wants to know the truth, understands our condition and dislikes sugar coating any inconveniences, a strong contrast to most customers who will demand things in a selfish way, read subtexts out of thin air and being not direct with their actual needs.

I bet that if two autistics run into business negotiations, they would be very blunt with the demands and would seek mutual agreement as soon as possible.

Straightforwardness is what I'm sure a lot of people secretly want, but are afraid to give!! That's epic.

What do you all make of this?

From this study from 2014.

"We conclude that the extreme male patterns of cognitive functions in the autistic brain do not seem to extend to gender role and sexuality."

Interesting in that it implies that male cognitive patterns, and gender social roles, have neurologically distinct origins. I'm guessing gender roles are more tied to cultural socialization than thinking patters are.

I think it's both, but yeah, that caught my eye as well. I think it's like "men are more likely to be this way, women are more likely to be that way, so let's force them all to act that way!" Taking a general trend with a lot of wiggle room, and forcing it into a rigid rule.

Not even that. I didn't read the article, but based on my knowledge of the subject, they are talking about things like gender differences on spatial visualization or semantic communication. Treating women as some form of property or prize to be won and possessed can't logically be derived from those cognitive differences, no matter how over-simplified you describe them.

The article goes into more detail once I get further down:

2014 study. Women are less likely to get diagnosed with autism than men (and it appearing in a more subtle form is often said to be part of why), so there may be a skew here towards women with a more obvious, more visible form of it. Just something to keep in mind.

Hey it's another one of the reasons no one would diagnose me. Because I wasn't a tomboy (was actually told this once, that I was too "feminine")

That's not really how the DSM criteria are supposed to be used. They're checklists, not filters. Who told you this?

People found literally every reason not to diagnose me for 19 years, from "your grades are too high" to "you're too feminine" to just the plain "girls don't get autism". I have heard it all.

Professional people? Where, if I don't mind my asking? (just so I know where to avoid sending anyone).

Around the entirety of New York and New England. School counselors were awful, and I was just bounced from therapist to therapist and nothing ever happened. And I've heard the same story from countless other female autistics. Mine is the pretty standard experience

Professional therapists, certainly, should know better.

Considering how many physicians use the "it's all in your head" excuse when something is happening to a patient that they don't understand, and "it can't be [condition that's too complex for them to believe in]" excuse, I'd say that there are a LOT of "experts" who believe what they want to.

Doctors once didn't believe food allergies were real. Doctors once didn't believe polio was real. There are doctors today who insist non-celiac gluten intolerance isn't real, even when celiac tests have a high rate of false negatives.

I can easily see psychologists screwing it up. Sadly, even with X-rays and brain scans showing major differences in autistic people's brains, such equipment is expensive and most people can't simply go and use it to prove the condition is there.

I've hear of males who also get hit with "Your grades are high, so it can't be autism", "Autism is for children, so what's the point in getting diagnosed now, even though you have it?" and one man was told "You're intelligent, you don't have any real disabilities, you're just a loser!" before he later got his diagnosis of autism, finally explaining his lifetime of social problems and difficulty getting/keeping a job.

I've been to too many "professional" therapists to expect that.

Yup, experienced all of those as well. Just functional enough to realize how fucked up I am, and to be told "Shut up, man up, and cope, and do not ever say or do anything to indicate that you are not perfectly normal!"

I met a trans autistic guy a few months ago at Disability Pride. Apparently autism and gender dysphoria are considered mutually exclusive diagnoses for a lot of therapists. I his case he wasn't diagnosed with autism until recently because his symptoms were attributed to gender dysphoria. And then it also goes the other way where people claim that gender dysphoria is just an autism symptom and therefore not as valid (I mean even if it was, why would that make it less valid?) and prevent trans autisitcs from transitioning.

edited 14th Nov '17 6:38:25 AM by Cailleach

An irony is that autistics are more likely to be transphobic as well, since many of us don't understand sex and gender as being separate, but instead would say something like, "Since gender roles don't matter, you're just the sex you actually are, so just accept that you're not 'manly' and just call yourself a man." to a transgender woman. Btw, a transgender woman beat the author of the "bathroom bill" in her state in the recent election.

It's ironic that if you don't have autism, you should stifle autistic behavior. I mean, obviously there's something going on there, so what dumbass therapist wouldn't see that?

But I've heard of people getting this crap before. "You're not autistic, don't say that you are!" (Autistic person later stims) "Stop doing that, it creeps me out!"