Captain America: Winter Soldier

Actually the Mark VII was constructed before Avengers, it was made directly after Iron Man 2. It was explained in a tie in comic that took place before Avengers, while the tower was being constructed.

Also Iron Man didn't just destroy the suits to please his girlfriend, he did it to make a clear statement, he had decided that for the time being he was done being Iron Man. For all we know he doesn't even have a workshop in New York and it's just a glorified office building/ Vacation home.

• J.A.R.V.I.S.: Sir, the Mark VII is not ready for deployment.
• Stark: Then skip the spinning rims! We're on the clock!

Despite what the tie-in comic - which is of questionable canon - may say, J.A.R.V.I.S.'s line indicates he is actively assembling the Mark VII as Stark approaches the tower. Likewise, the "spinning rims" line is effectively Stark telling him to trim out the fat and focus only on critical components. This means the tower possesses the capability to assemble an Iron Man armor.

He also has to shout deploy three times before it finally does, implying that J.A.R.V.I.S. just finished assembling it for launch right that second that it actually does.

edited 27th Sep '14 8:43:34 PM by TobiasDrake

Even if he can create suits in a matter of hours, what is he going to do about the HYDRA agents who are monitoring his communications and will be there in a matter of minutes?

Or the nuke that would arrive in seconds?

Okay but then that negates a prior point and doesn't address another point I had, and one last point I'll bring up.

The first one is, you said the Armor could be produced in a matter of hours, how long do you think that particular suit was being built for, and how fast do you think Tony would work to produce a suit that he was probably only going to use once before returning to semi-retirement? Would it be enough time to fly from where he was, to where the suit is being built assuming he's not home, or near the tower at all during this? Have the suit be built, then fly over to some unknown location in Virginia from New York?

My second point, how would Steve know he would be willing to do it, he just retired from flying around and shooting things. Steve doesn't have that guarantee. Steve can't fight Hydra on what if's.

And my point I thought up after I sent my message is. Why would Steve and Natasha ever pick up a phone when the most powerful intelligence organization in the world is organizing a manhunt for them. How do they know that Shield isn't listening on every line for a hint of their voices. Why would they put Tony Stark at risk, by calling him when they know that Hydra would probably kill him as soon as he started moving and doing something that threatened them.

And don't say it's because they can't. They have agents everywhere, Nick Fury has shown that he can walk in and out of Starks house at his leisure without him knowing, and even knows what tricks he uses.

edited 27th Sep '14 8:52:45 PM by SilentlyHonest

That suit was the Mark VII. Since then, he's made 35 more suits. He's not exactly new to designing these things anymore.

Let me answer that question with a question: does Steve even know he blew up his suits in the first place?

Yes, he has. And he's on their side. Prior to meeting Fury, Cap and Nat are basically playing things deep undercover; inviting Tony would be like asking a cruise missile to join them on their stealth mission. But once they meet up with Fury and start forming plans and moving into place, that is the time to start making some phone calls to some wrecking ball individuals, and Tony is the easiest point of contact - Thor and Banner would be understandably harder to reach.

Fury is so secretive of a superspy that he has a hidden backup copy of his own security access activated by his dead eye. Do you really think he would be completely unable to secretly contact a high-profile billionaire?

Thor, the Hulk, Iron Man. Get any one of these three in place and the most Hydra can do is flail about impotently as their valuable helicarriers are torn to shit. Thor is on Earth but may not necessarily be known where, the Hulk is in the mystical void of "somewhere", and Tony's...retired, which makes him incredibly easy to locate and contact.

edited 27th Sep '14 9:02:34 PM by TobiasDrake

Because he was supposed to be dead then, and Tony Stark is a lot of things, but stealthy isn't one of them. Besides, in the space of a few hours, HYDRA would have launched their heli-carriers and could nuke him while he's still figuring out the paint job.

By the time they meet up with Fury, the time for stealth is over. Cap's entire plan consists of walking in the front door. Fury does the same shortly after.

And by "few", you mean about 10-11ish.

Tobias, your argument has so many holes in it, I feel it's insulting to both you and to me to even write another rebuttal.

The fact of the matter is, as many questions not calling stark raised in Winter Soldier, if tony came in the Third act repulsers lighting up like it's the fourth of July, it would raise so many more.

I'm going to agree to disagree with you here.

THE THIRD ACT OF IRON MAN 3 WAS BROADCAST ON TV! YES STEVE KNOWS!

edited 27th Sep '14 9:08:54 PM by SilentlyHonest

I feel that they probably didn't call in Tony because he's too difficult to handle.

What? No, it wasn't. Killian announced an intention to film the President's execution, but there weren't exactly news cameras swarming the site, watching the carnage.

edited 27th Sep '14 9:11:34 PM by TobiasDrake

Couldn't a phone call be intercepted, letting HYDRA know where Steve and Nat are? I recall The Incredible Hulk even brings up this point, hence why Banner chooses to use a payphone instead, and even that let General Ross find him. (It's been a while since I saw the movie, but that's what I remember.)

edited 27th Sep '14 9:13:46 PM by Tuckerscreator

Oh well I guess I took that statement too literally... Still No.

edited 27th Sep '14 9:13:18 PM by SilentlyHonest

Yeah, IIRC when everything initially went down there were 16 hours til launch. It's probably safe to assume that Steve's escape, meeting up with Natasha, finding the hidden base, and retreating to Sam's ate up at least half of that. If they slept at all, we can probably knock off another two to four hours. Which means finding Sitwell, interrogating him, getting attacked, getting caught, getting rescued, meeting Nick, and planning their attack (not to mention getting the jetpack) happened within four to six hours. And they didn't have time to spare when they went to stop the launch.

So they didn't exactly have Nick's superspy capabilities to contact Iron Man at first, and by the time they did it was almost definitely too late for him to join them.

edited 27th Sep '14 9:17:41 PM by CorrTerek

The time of 16 hours was during Sitwell's interrogation, afterwhich they fought the Winter Soldier, were captured, rescued, and taken to meet Fury; all of that couldn't have taken more than a few hours, tops.

They still had time to spare when they arrived at the facility; outing Hydra forced their hand into an early launch.

Who knows, maybe contacting Tony Stark might have caused an early launch too, just so they can make sure he's sniped. I'm sure he'd be flattered.

Pierce requesting Tony to be at his niece's birthday was actually a disguised assassination plot.

edited 27th Sep '14 9:34:44 PM by Tuckerscreator

Yeah, that was the really confusing part...starting with "I thought Tony has destroyed all his suits????" and ending with "since when can Fury command Tony to do anything?". It would be better if he had asked for Steve.

edited 28th Sep '14 1:38:53 PM by Swanpride

While Fury probably doesn't have commanding authority over Tony, I do think that Tony respects him enough after the Avengers to be willing to do him a favor like that. Not to mention I feel like it wouldn't be horribly hard to get him to do something like that (by normal means/through Pepper/reverse psychology) for the sake of his ego/the kids.

We are talking about Tony Stark, Mr. Contrary. He would most likely say no even if Fury had asked him to turn up at the next playboy party. Remember, when Fury initially tried to recruit him for the Avengers, he was all "nope, not interested". But after he was deemed unsuitable, he was suddenly all "I could work as an consultant". The best way to get Tony to do anything is to forbid him something...but I doubt that this trick would work in this case. He is not that stupid.

Convincing Stark wouldn't be that hard. Somehow, I have difficulty seeing this conversation happening.

• FURY: A murder-weapon capable of killing millions of people, including a rifle pointed right at YOUR head, is going online in about 10 hours. We need Iron Man in the air. Can you help us?
• STARK: Nope, sorry. I'm retired. Good luck with that, though. Let me know how it turns out.

EDIT: In any case, my point wasn't that Stark absolutely should have been in Winter Soldier; just that their case of Superman Stays Out of Gotham makes less sense to me than Iron Man 3's. It's the most glaring example in Phase II of the characters having both ample time to prepare for the coming storm - unlike the battle in London in Thor 2 - but make no effort to contact anybody - unlike Stark and Rhodey in Iron Man 3.

edited 29th Sep '14 10:32:27 AM by TobiasDrake

I'll lean towards the theory that someone had that it was to protect Tony.

Even if he can make a suit in a couple hours, a SHIELD/Hydra team would be on his ass before then.

.. Hold the phone, where are we getting the implication that tony can make a suit in a couple of hours? I thought it was clear tat the suit that saved him in The Avengers was still in development, not that he had it whipped up in mere hours because he ordered it. I mean to think he can have them manufactured out of the blue like that just because of his excessive riches seems... Ridiculous?

I thought it was just a suit he had in development that just happened to be the nearest one he could use, not one he was having made in the moment. I figured it was something he was going to get back to but being thrown out a window meant he couldn't finish certain touches before it was 100% deploy ready.

I'm a huge superhero fan, I obviously have a gigantic willing suspension of disbelief but he idea that it was implied that he was having the suit made in transit? Shatters that entirely.

edited 29th Sep '14 11:18:20 AM by MousaThe14

I thought we'd switched to discussing the likelihood of Fury actually being able to get Stark to show up to a birthday party.

I agree. Unless Tony already had a suit lying around, he wouldn't have been able to help. And contacting any of the Avengers would be like a giant "look we have planed something" bonfire.

Still say that it is nearly nill.

edited 29th Sep '14 12:06:18 PM by Swanpride

From when he had J.A.R.V.I.S. assemble the Mark IV in a few hours while he was out at a bar. And then proceeded to make 38 more suits in his career.

I would actually find it more unbelievable if the Mark 43 in Avengers winds up taking several weeks of development time. He's got to have building an Iron Man suit down pretty well by now. He doesn't have to do an ounce of research and experimenting like he did in the beginning; it is literally as simple as, "Here is a schematic. Build it."

He has the knowledge, an A.I. capable of doing the labor, and an assembly plant. Does anyone honestly believe, when he inevitably makes a suit in Avengers 2, that he's going to need longer than a few hours to throw one together?

edited 29th Sep '14 12:52:31 PM by TobiasDrake