Captain America: Winter Soldier

"Hey Clint, how was Tahiti?" "It......was ok."

And yea, him doing a Die Hard in a SHIELD base against HYDRA would be funnier.

"Barton 10. HYDRA 8."

edited 27th Sep '14 7:45:58 AM by comicwriter

"....it's a magical place."

I admit, I don't get the question why not more of the avengers were called in. The absence of SHIELD irritated me during Ironman 3 because there was a very public threat which just got collectively ignored. But in the The Winter Soldier, it makes sense that it is difficult to contact the other avengers, especially since Fury wants to keep the whole thing under wraps initially. Though I really wonder how they all reacted when the information hit the net.

Jarvis: "Sorry to interrupt sir. You might want to gear up because I just got the information that three giant Helicarriers are flying around, intending to kill a bunch of people, and you happen to be on the list. Oh, never mind, Captain America already took care of them. Just proceed inventing."

edited 27th Sep '14 9:09:31 AM by Swanpride

Mandarin was seen as a US Military thing. SHIELD is multinational and calling on them would be seen as some in the US as a sign of weakness. I think it was said in-film of something similar.

Rhodey says as much.

Also Stark mentions that he hacked SHIELD's database to find their info on the Mandarin, which would at the very least imply they are investigating Mandarin and the Ten Rings.

An no government institution (no matter which one) feels compelled to have people on Tony Starks house after he called out the mandarin on public TV? Yeah...right.....

Though to be fair it less than a day seems to have passed between Stark's threat and the Mandarin blowing Malibu to smithereens. Maybe the government was simply caught behind.

I have no issues with Captain America The Winter Soldier leaving out the rest of the Avengers. Most of the movie involves Cap and Black Widow finding out what's going on, and until they know, there's no point in calling anyone in. And even when they do know, having someone with serious levels of credibility - i.e., Cap - fighting against HYDRA is better than bringing in an alien (which could, if misinterpreted, provoke a war between world governments and Asgard), a monster (as many, including the US military, would still see the Hulk), or a fairly reckless and irresponsible billionaire. Besides which, they've got a very short time frame.

Iron Man 3 is more problematic, because it's incomprehensible that the US government wouldn't call in Captain America to deal with a situation where a terrorist was killing Americans, propagandizing against the United States, and kidnapping the President. That's pretty much at the top of the list for "situations in which you would call on Captain America".

edited 27th Sep '14 6:11:32 PM by WarriorEowyn

Thing is, we saw some of the response the US government was doing, and it was largely all off on the wrong continent. Its entirely likely the government *did* ask Cap to do something, and/or that SHIELD was doing stuff regardless of whether they were asked. It was just in the wrong place entirely. Note that, given what they knew about the Ten Rings to that point, there was little reason to think they'd even be *capable* of making a strike against Tony mere hours after a prior attack.

The Superman Stays Out of Gotham page has a theory that HYDRA was secretly keeping SHIELD from responding in an attempt to kill Tony.

So, HYDRA is a wizard.

Heheh

So I take it any X-Men that appear in the MCU are alternate reality versions of the main X-Men line? Otherwise Quicksilver would be a lot older.

MCU isn't allowed to use mutants but are allowed to use Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch provided they never call them mutants, mention the X-Men or mention MAGNETO.

Headcanon accepted

I am still glad that they are forced to keep the x-man out of the universe. Too complicated. I guess the twins now got something along the line of extremis?

edited 27th Sep '14 1:51:54 PM by Swanpride

I mean, who buys GUM from a vending machine?! I can understand if he hid it behind the Flamin' Hot Cheetos, but GUM?!

edited 27th Sep '14 2:08:49 PM by maxwellelvis

Personally, I had more trouble accepting Superman Stays Out of Gotham in Winter Soldier than Iron Man 3. In general, I can usually accept it because superheroes are very, very busy people. They don't all sit by their phones waiting to dogpile on anyone that fights any of them. In the Marvel Universe, the general answer for where X hero was when Y event happened is, "Doing something else."

In the case of Iron Man 3, S.H.I.E.L.D. is not Tony's babysitter. Fury even explicitly states at the end of Avengers that he's not tracking the Avengers' whereabouts; putting undercover agents right next to the guy to report on his every action is a thing of the past. After Tony calls out the Mandarin, things happen very quickly, Tony himself is constantly mobile with short action sequences that are hundreds of miles away from each other, and S.H.I.E.L.D. is not currently tracking his whereabouts. They couldn't intervene if they tried.

Winter Soldier also has the justification of a protagonist that is constantly mobile and action sequences that are far away from each other, but suffers for one specific scene: Cap and Natasha need somewhere to hole up and an ally for the coming events, and they knock on the door of some random guy Cap met rather than Tony Stark. If Stark were still living in California at the time, it would make work as a matter of logistics, but you'd think at the very least, a phone call would suffice; especially while they were on their way to stop the launch of the three Helicarriers.

From a Doylist perspective, the reason for keeping Iron Man out of the climax makes sense for the same reason that it doesn't make sense from a Watsonian perspective: Iron Man would have annihilated the Helicarriers not long after they took off, and there's not a whole lot the Winter Soldier could have done about it.

edited 27th Sep '14 3:19:25 PM by TobiasDrake

The Winter Soldier is set in Washington. It's not like either New York or Malibu or London are close. And informing Tony might be a little bit difficult (never mind that he just destroyed all his suits....)

edited 27th Sep '14 3:31:04 PM by Swanpride

I think that was the idea. They needed to hole up somewhere fast and Sam was the only person they knew that was in the area. Going to New York or London risks them getting caught before they get there.

In addition to time sensitivity, Tony would have been the real obvious choice. Even if they didn't get caught by the time they reached him, HYDRA would have already had people in the area waiting for them to show up. In contrast, they only just met Sam.

edited 27th Sep '14 3:38:27 PM by MousaThe14

Who knows, Tony might be in China around the time, getting operated on his chest...the timeline is a little hazy....in any case, contacting him would be way too risky. Sam was the best choice because he was on no ones radar.

They don't have to go to New York in person. A phone call would have sufficed.

There's, like, ten hours where they're just driving to the Triskelion to launch the final assault. That's plenty of time to phone Tony and go, "Hey, just a heads up, you might went to be in the air somewhere around DC in about eight hours. Shit is going to get real."

And then what can Hydra do? Iron Man-proof the base? Their biggest guns couldn't even handle Falcon.

The protagonists of Winter Soldier spend a lot of time in-transit from one place to another. They had more than enough time to try and reach a high-profile celebrity like Stark, who would be insanely easy to contact for the world's greatest superspy Nick Fury. Stark, to his credit, at least made an effort in his movie to bring the conflict to the attention of others; passing the information along to the Vice President, who was supposed to pass it forward along the chain of command, but didn't because he was in Killian's pocket.

edited 27th Sep '14 8:27:25 PM by TobiasDrake

Tobias, Tony doesn't have anymore armors. He destroyed them all in Iron Man 3. In Avengers 2, he will not have the suit at the beginning but after he builds Ultron. They could call Rhodey and his U.S. Patriot suit, but do they even know him?

edited 27th Sep '14 8:27:17 PM by SilentlyHonest

Tony has an A.I. that built the Mark IV from scratch in a couple hours. Not having a suit is an excuse.

edited 27th Sep '14 8:31:11 PM by TobiasDrake

The lab and workshop where that AI was housed was destroyed.

edited 27th Sep '14 8:29:32 PM by SilentlyHonest

Except that it's also in New York too.

He's made 42 of the damn things so building one is pretty much down pat, he has an AI who would know how to reconstruct one even if Tony doesn't, and he has a manufacturing/assembly plant in New York that was not destroyed with the armory - the one that constructed the Mark VII during Avengers. He can have a suit whenever he wants one.

edited 27th Sep '14 8:32:02 PM by TobiasDrake