Fantastic Four Reboot

actually, he may have come back at the end of Miles' first solo issue

I think that's likely a clone situation. There's two new Spider-Villains with the same powers as Peter running around now...

It was a fakeout. His mind managed to survive but was trapped inside his own body while Ock was running the show.

I could still also say technically that Ultimate Jessica Drew being alive means that Peter is alive. Did we ever find out if Johnny actually dated her? Or was that just a gag?

But it's a comicbook death? Characters stay dead for a year, maybe two tops. Jean Grey has been the one exception and I honestly don't know what the deal is there.

Executive Meddling: She was not supposed to die in the first place but it was mandated she had to, otherwise Jean Grey would be a massive Karma Houdini. So, writers worked about proving Jean Grey was not really dead and not responsible for the bad things that happened, so she would not have to die in the first place but then it was mandated that she would die, again. For real this time.

edited 9th May '14 11:40:31 PM by IndirectActiveTransport

Because Quesada ships Cyclops/White Queen, and hates marriages because his parents got divorced so why should comic book heroes have what he didn't?

Oh, and Cyclops had been having a psychic affair with Emma for YEARS before Jean died. And within hours of the funeral, they were making out over Jean's grave. And having sex, and Cyclops blasted Wolverine for walking in on them and calling Scott out. In case you didn't need more reasons why Cyclops sucks.

The reason Jean was brought back the first time is because they wanted to do a comic featuring the original cast of X-Men (X-Factor or something?) and Jean was dead.

Oh well, what can you do. What's done is done. Oh wait, no, she's alive again? It was never her fault and the Phoenix Force was only taking her form? Ooookay. Oh. And Scott left Jean-lookalike to get back together with Jean.

So yeah. Executive meddling killed her and executive meddling brought her back.

Not Marvel, I know, but is Damian Wayne still dead?

Yup.

On the black Superhero thing, never heard of Blade? Whose first two films in his franchise paved the way for the modern wave of Marvel films that were actually worth watching? If Blade don't count as a superhero I don't know who does.

Admittedly Blade: Trinity was an abomination that would have been far better following the plot of its own novelization and actually ending the vampire menace once and for all but two out of three, as Jim Steinman and Meat Loaf Aday famously said, ain't bad.

edited to add:

Oh yeah, fuck Quesada. That man is an irrelevance. Why the board at Marvel don't terminate him baffles me.

edited 10th May '14 10:46:33 AM by TamH70

Frig.

Because money.

Blade isn't really a superhero, in the films at least. He's more of an action hero. If he counts, then so does the guy from Die Hard. Hell, would you count Luke Skywalker as a superhero?

Its less Blade popularized superhero movies and more that Blade proved adapting comic books as movies was a viable business venture.

Luke Skywalker, public identity, soldier in a war and all, part of (if one of the last of) a chain of nobles who kept the peace? Naw.

Blade, while no secret identity he is not exactly a public figure, he is not joining a wider conflict but fighting something the common man has no real idea about, his super powers are not something that were ever common place in society either. He's definitely more superhero than Skywalker. He was more superhero than his then comic self, who had much more subdued super powers and worked for a detective agency at one point.

I guess it really depends on the definition of superhero we're working with.

Regarding character deaths, can we count everyone in DC who died pre-Flashpoint as staying dead for real? Because the characters in the new universe aren't, for the most part, the same as the old characters, they're just new versions of them, so anyone who 'returns from the dead' in this new continuity is just a similarly new character who happens to shate the same basic template as the guy who died originally.

Thor's the heir to the throne, and has no secret identity. Captain America is a soldier who has no secret identity. Iron Man's true identity is also public knowledge, he probably uses it in corporate promotional videos.

I mean, I would agree that Luke Skywalker isn't a superhero, because he isn't the protagonist of a superhero movie. Just like Blade. The Blade movies are supernatural action horror, or something along those lines. They've more in common with Underworld than Avengers or Spider-man.

That feels too much like rewarding DC for their inane 'reboot every ten year!' idiocy.

edited 11th May '14 5:15:47 AM by imadinosaur

Thor is not much of a superhero, when he's doing his thing in any of the nine worlds not named Midgard. He's a god amongst gods, giants, trolls, alfar and dragons, not particularly noteworthy if not for his role in the foretold end of the world. It's not particularly odd for anyone to go fishing with him, they can knock on the door of his hall and ask to borrow one of his goats.

On Earth though, yes, he has a secret identity, a couple of them actually. He defends a bunch of squishy humans from gods, aliens and is generally inaccessible to the public. Granted, I'm talking comics, I have not watched any Marvel movies newer than the Avengers. The point is, Thor started as a superhero before moving out of the genre to general god stuff. If the movies skipped the superhero aspect, that's fine but that doesn't mean my argument for Blade does not hold up.

The Underworld movies are about a war behind vampires and werewolves. Neither side is really out to protect humanity, they will from stuff like William and Marcus but that was as much for their own selfish interest. The protagonist outright stated her goal is to take over the world. Blade is specifically about protecting humans from vampires and their familiars. He's not nice, Selene is actually much nicer, but Blade is more a superhero in function. Selene and her coven work for themselves.

I think this point is really too minor for either of us to waste much more time on, but: I think that Blade doesn't count as a superhero because his movies aren't really superhero movies. No more than Die Hard is, anyway (John Mc Clane also keeps his identity secret from the baddies in order to protect his loved ones).

John =Mc Clane= isn't fighting to protect humanity against outwordly threats, nor does he have a special moniker, imagery or nature like Blade.

Fantastic Four. No superpowers. Just disabilities?

Huh. Reminds me a bit of the DC expies of the Fantastic Four.

Not gonna lie, that sounds weird.

It could work though, and anything's better than the first FF film I suppose.

That kind of sentence always makes me nervous.