What defines a Young Adult Novel from an Adult one?

Tiamatty may be on to something about the language. A lot of YA stuff seems to be easy to read. I mean the subject matter may be serious or complicated but the language is comprehensible and the tend to be page turners.

As for content I've seen some messed up stuff (some of which I wouldn't want my kid to read if I had one) Though i guess they usually keep the violence and especially sex at least down to a "PG 13" level.

I'll admit I've read all the Twilight books. (I started out of curiosity/concern as to what my little cousin was reading.) I just got to say that birth scene is one of the most horrific things I've ever read in fiction.

edited 24th Jan '14 9:30:45 PM by HistoryMaker

So ritual cannibalism with a Freudian bent? How delightfully disturbing.

Now, again, why does this keep coming up? Seriously, guys. "Young Adult" is a demographic that publishers market books to, not an organic genre. Sure, there are stories aimed at teenagers with themes directly relevant to them and that is perfectly valid subject matter, but the idea that teens only want to read "teen novels" strikes me as a really questionable, even poisonous assumption. Likewise, the idea that a novel about adults or children will not appeal to teenagers and vice-versa seems similarly anathema to my understanding of what reading is about.

Why does this topic keep coming up and why do I have to keep restating this?

Yep.

There are certain individuals in this story who, along with all the fun hormones that come along with puberty, get two extra ones — one that makes people like you and find you charismatic and one that's hallucinogenic. Within the story, people like this are considered by some to be holy. This ends about as well as one can expect.

That raises another question, is then the title of Young Adult because of ease of the language instead of the actual content?

Which, that comes across as confusing because you'd logically think its then the content itself.

To go back to my own example, my more... adult themes are far more core and discussed than simply a really horrifying birth scene. It isn't just one scene. Its several scenes of who this character is, what he's been through, and etc where that is discussed.

One of the far less... intense scenes that I have him in is that he is fired from his job because he refuses to follow his boss' orders of refusing service to his lesbian best friend who comes into the restaurant he works at with her girlfriend. And this is discussed at length.

The thing I'm writing has teenagers as the main characters, and I think of it as young adult. The language is simpler to go along with that definition. Although I'm not sure how "marketable" it is as a young adult novel. It's way too long, the main character is a huge nihilist, there's a lot of talk about suicide and depression and death...

Screw marketability though, it's still good writing. Or, it will be once I finish revising it and have some beta readers go over it. I'm not changing the story for "demographics" or whatever.

Honestly, I think it's a little condescending to think that a novel for teenage readers must have simpler language than one for adults. Consider the density of the required reading at the middle and high school level, or conversely how slight a lot of popular novels are; or, more charitably, contrast C.S. Lewis with Raymond Carver. A kid can be wordy and loquacious just as a grown person can be clipped and blunt. So goes their reading.

A simpler style is not an inherently bad thing, and it can be a strength, but one should not dumb down one's language simply because one is writing for a slightly younger audience. Do not underestimate your audience. People generally prefer to be slightly overestimated than underestimated.

edited 25th Jan '14 1:10:14 AM by JHM

However, I would recommend not going to Fitzgerald, Steinbeck, or Hemmingway levels of language when aiming for "Young Adult" as... If my High School English Classes were any indication, you're not going to draw much readership.

Keep it concise, but vibrant and interesting.

Come to think of it. I don't think I've really read all that many 'Adult' Novels...

Wait, what now? Hemingway's language is really simple and direct. Extremely dry, but not complicated in the slightest. But setting that aside, different people have different levels of tolerance for different registers of language: I started reading Clark Ashton Smith in middle school and I loved how astoundingly flowery and exotic his prose could be. It felt like it took me to another world, and I relished that, even if I didn't always get all the exact meanings of the words.

That being said, I never said that you should have to write like Faulkner or Henry James or whatever. I just meant to say that you shouldn't feel like you have to talk down to your audience. They're teenagers, not morons.

I also take issue with the idea that something should be phased out of the curriculum simply because someone finds it boring or difficult given how subjective that judgement is. I didn't like Beowulf, but I still think that it's important and worth teaching, if deserving of some caveats and background info. But that's a different argument.

edited 25th Jan '14 1:56:23 AM by JHM

I'm not saying that something should be phased out of curriculum or anything; I hated Great Gatsby, but I did learn from it and understood it better with the movie. I do find issue with being FORCED to read the books because that really is a turn off for books.

And, what I was getting at with Hemmingway WAS the dryness. Since this is a teenage audience, a dry narrative is probably going to kill interest quickly. They don't have the tolerance most adults have for dry reads. Since this is for teenagers, while I wouldn't say talk down to them or anything, appealing to them a bit more wouldn't hurt.

I feel like I could make some religious nod to the bible authors 'knowing their audience' but I feel I'd come across a pretentious and I can't find a good Segway in. Sorry. Catholic School Education. Regardless of your beliefs, You will know the Christian Religion/Mythology FOR-EVER.

I think all books should be dry. Have you ever tried to read a soggy book? And don't get me started on what moisture does to ereaders...

JHM: It's true that a lot of teens read books meant for more adult audiences. As I said, I read Don Quixote for fun when I was in high school. But there's a lot of teens who are reluctant readers. Handing them something with more complex language is going to turn them off. Giving them something with a lot of short, simple sentences will appeal to them a lot more. For an average teen looking for horror, Simon Holt or Darren Shan (to use two authors I just looked up) will be a lot easier for them to get into than Stephen King. That's not to say there aren't plenty of teens who don't love King, but for the average teen, he's probably a little more complex than they really want to handle.

It's worth noting that 55% of YA fiction is bought by people over 18, so that same simplicity does often appeal to some adults, as well.

Well there's a good question. Horror often involves young adults and teenagers. However horror involving them is generally about a complete failure to grow up. It has no optimism to offer teenagers. No competency. So despite often featuring teenage protagonists I would wager that most horror is not YA.

That doesn't mean horror can't be YA. The Horror Genre has been redefined and horror is usually only as good as the villains hiding in the dark (I just took a Horror Class last semester and passed with flying colors. Go education!), so a YA Novel in Horror could show that the Villain didn't grow up and he is defeated because the protagonists did what the villain didn't? Of course, what I just described isn't horror exactly, but horror doesn't have to have an unhappy ending.

Then, you can play with the concept. The Horror Villain is the one who grew up and the teenage protagonists, because they haven't grown up, find something to defeat them. Or some variations and subversions of the above.

Like YA " Clasics " (somtimes called "Literature") is another somewhat arbitrary category which contains books from many genres.

I wonder, would book like The Catcher In The Rye be considered YA if it wasn't old?

Young Adult tends to be a very vague category. A lot of books with a teen protagonist gets lumped in with Young Adult, regardless of the actual content. I've seen the exact same book was put in the children's section of one library and the Young Adult section of another library.

I think there's a stigma attached to teens and adults reading children's books. Some people believe that children's literature is inherently inferior, or that children's books can't handle complex topics. (I'm embarrassed to admit that I used to hold that attitude.) So sometimes the Young Adult label gets used as a way of saying: "This isn't some silly kid's book. This is actually good!" For examples, see Harry Potter, Artemis Fowl and Animorphs. All were published and marketed as children's books, but are listed on Wikipedia as "young adult."

edited 26th Jan '14 6:51:33 PM by LadyMomus

Well, that's a particular type of horror fiction, and in all honesty a variety that I generally do not care for, at least not when it is treated as "horror."

Now, to the reluctant reader argument: While there are certainly children and teenagers best brought into the fold through more simply written (yet hopefully nevertheless emotionally and intellectually sophisticated) stories, not every child is reluctant to read, and to treat all literature aimed at children and young adults as if it were aimed at those who have not yet become accustomed to reading for pleasure is a disservice to those who have. What's more, we come back to the caveat of simple writing with deep themes: How many people, when told to "simplify" their writing for a younger audience, strip out meaning as well as vocabulary? That, not more condensed language, is truly talking down to one's audience.

P.S. I honestly don't much like Hemingway, although The Old Man and the Sea is beautiful. I've always been a bigger fan of Faulkner among the modernists. I had to read "The Bear" for an English class; half the class hated it, but I loved it.

edited 27th Jan '14 10:40:32 AM by JHM

I'm confused. I do not really think that YA books have much simpler vocabulary, I think 99% of it is pacing.

I'm responding to other people's assertions rather than the state of the art here. Generally speaking, this is true.

I think in YA books yeah there might be the occasional "use a simpler word here" but the major difference does, I think, seem to be pacing. YA books are very fast-paced to keep the attention of the reader. A book written for "adults" generally has a slower pace and expects the reader to be able to pay attention. Not that this is true for all of them but it's definitely a trend.

Yeah. Although in some cases that, too, can be more than a little annoying. But so can dwelling endlessly on something trivial.

The pacing thing is why I think I would have trouble considering most of what I've written YA.

edited 27th Jan '14 11:35:44 AM by ohsointocats