The Knife Thread

We've got a discussion going about guns. I figure it wouldn't be amiss if we started one about knives. As always let us try to remain civil and even-handed with our posting. And, if a discussion veers too much into some other territory (politics, for example) let us take it to some other thread.

Anyhow, I'll open the floor with a few talking points.

Point the First: I was gifted with a Gerber survival machete this Christmas...and I can tell you, those folks at Gerber do know how to make a blade. The thing hefts nicely and swings well. Worthy of particular attention is the grip...it fills the hand and has a well-thought-out knurl for my thumb, not to mention it being made of pebbled rubber. I can't imagine the thing slipping out of my grasp.

My only beef with it is the silly sawtooth edge running along the back. The bevels on the saw teeth are all wrong, and the teeth themselves are coated in the same matte black whatever the rest of the machete is covered in. I'm sorry, but a saw has to have good teeth if it is to be functional and coating the teeth = dulling them. Also, what the fuck is up with that "add a saw edge to make it a 'survival' knife" shit anyway?

Anyhow, Point the Second: I also got gifted with a couple of utility knives (devices designed to use disposable blades)...one was a nice Sheffield folder and the other was an out-the-front Turboknife. The Sheffield (with its pretty wood insets and easy action, albeit fucking right handed easy action) is going to stay home, the Turbo is going to work with me.

What I'm curious about...any workmen want to comment on the design shift between the old utility knives (with their slide-action and need for a Philips screwdriver to change the blade) and the Sheffield folding innovation? I like the folder personally, but I have heard some people bitch about it.

I open the floor for discussion. Let us talk about knives.

Can you link to some pics?

WOOT! A subject near and dear to my heart - I love knives as much as I love firearms.

My most recent acquisition is the Walther P99 lockblade knife which I like very much, even though it's way too large to be an EDC knife. It's now on the belt I wear when camping, along with my survival kit, canteen, Leatherman Wave and two other knives.

I've done a full review on it here but in brief: one hand opening, liner lock, good grips (with interchangeable back straps like the pistol on which it's patterned), belt pouch and it's black (so it's perfect).

While on camping knives, I've got a "Rich A. Herder" high-carbon steel sheath knife that was made in Solingen, Germany (made from the original dies for the WWII HJ Messer but without the hilt insignia or blade inscription) which feels nice in the hand and holds an edge extremely well and another Solingen-made Bowie-style sheath knife of semi-stainless steel (which is to say, it's not completely stainless but it doesn't rust as fast as it could) that has an extremely heavy blade, which I carry instead of a tomahawk. I've long since worn off the brand name cleaning up the "stainless" surface.

My EDC knives are the two blades of my Leatherman Wave and two Victorinox Swiss Army knives - the "Spartan" and the "Classic SD". These are pretty much all I can get away with in an urban setting here in New Zealand as we're not allowed to carry knives without "a good reason to do so" - and it's not us that decides if our reason is "good" enough (that's left up to the member of the Constabulary who finds it on your person to decide.)

But as a techie, I figure can pretty much get away with a couple of multi-purpose tools that also happen to incorporate knife blades.

When I'm out camping or tramping or even out on a farm, having the larger knives on me is justifiable.

I'm planning on getting a Spyderco "Persistence" lockblade (liner lock again, as I don't like having the lock release in the middle, or at the end, of the grip) but I doubt I could come up with a "reason" for carrying that at any time other than when I'm out camping/hunting.

I've had to retire my old lock-blade knife - an Okapi copy of the Mercator "Cat" - as it's been too sadly abused over the years, the blade is so wobbly that if I tried to slice a potato I'd end up with crinkle-cut crisps. Kinda sad, as it was part of my camping gear/survival kit for over 20 years.

I need to ask my wife about what she has, she's the knife nut in the house. I know she has her grandfather's WW 2 Navy knife, a few other service knives, and quite a few nicely pricy things from various knifesmiths.

Random question.

Is machete a knife? Apprently it's categorized as a jungle knife, but it looks a bit too big. Looks more appropriate for a small axe or sword.

I kinda want to get a bowie knife or a k-bar to affix to my IOTV when we go to the field just for lulz.

But on a side note, I do want to learn how to throw knives well.

I think it's mostly that swords are only weapons, thus a tool intended for non-weapon use is a knife, not a sword, even though it is large enough to count as a short sword.

And then that gets muddied somewhat by the Germans calling some of their swords "messer" - which means "knife".

IIRC "Messor" is also Latin for scythe.

I thought scythe came from a different set of words.

And a quick search suggests Messor means harvester or reaper.

Wolf: It seems it is a generic name for a knife. They have more specific names for knives.

For example.

großes Messer "great knife

Hiebmesser "hewing knife,"

Kriegsmesser "war knife," etc

edited 31st Dec '13 7:12:22 PM by TuefelHundenIV

Reaper sounds right. I knew it was something like that. Scythe was "falcatae", which I should have remembered straight away.

edited 31st Dec '13 6:53:52 PM by Achaemenid

Well, having already established that one of the online knife stores in New Zealand has the facility to do lay-by terms with payments made by internet banking, yesterday I put a deposit on a Spyderco "Persistence" and a Spyderco Tri-Angle Sharpmaker.

I should have them paid off in a few weeks and then I'll have two things I've wanted for years: a Spyderco lockblade and a ceramic sharpening set.

Then my knife "load-out" for camping will be two sheath knives, two lock-blade knives (one-hand opening), two Swiss Army knives and a Leatherman.

How am I "fixed for blades"? Very well, and thank you for asking, Gillette.

I have a really good link for how to sharpen knives quite nicely manually.

You can use both a grinder for large work and a bench top belt sander for putting the polished edge on it.

The sharpmaker is manual - more so than a grinder or belt sander - and it should help me keep the angle consistent when sharpening, which is my biggest problem.

ok found something similar.

Check this out. See here Good for convex blades.

I've never had a convex ground blade. All the ones I've had are either flat ground or hollow ground, with the bevelled edge on them.

What are the advantages and disadvantages to convex grinding the edge?

Fairbairn-Sykes or K-BAR - which would you take with you to a desert island?

If those were the only options, the KA-BAR.

The Fairbairn-Sykes is pretty much a "pig-sticker", while the KA-BAR is a clip point utility knife that would work better in a deserted island situation.

You could use the commando dagger/knife in a utilitiry role but it is better suited to killing people and it's design is geared towards that. The KA-Bar is field utility combat knife. It is meant to be both a fighting knife and a tool.

I would take the KA BAR. Oh the Kabar has that hard to sharpen edge on it as does the Commando knife.

Of those two, a KA-BAR definitely. The Sykes-Fairbairn is downright fragile for a utility knife. But I'd really prefer a Cattaraugus (a 225Q if I could be that specific). Lovely things they are; I've got one and the balance, the weight, and the edge it will hold are delightful.

edited 2nd Jan '14 6:44:26 PM by Madrugada

Nice knife, Maddy.

The Fairbairn-Sykes is way too fragile and impractical in blade shape/style - can't see me batonning wood with it or using it to sharpen stakes or as a hatchet. Can't even put your thumb on the back of it to apply gentle pressure if control is required (like when making feather sticks etc).

Frankly, it's crap as a bush/utility knife. Great for stabbing a person and would no doubt deal to a pig, but fuck all use for anything else - but then, it wasn't designed to be.

The KA-BAR is closer in style to my heavy-bladed unknown-make Solingen Bowie knife, which would be my first choice if I had to choose only one of my knives.

Ideally, of course, I'd have all my knives on me

edited 2nd Jan '14 6:22:37 PM by Wolf1066

By the way, I've also got two S-Fs to compare the Cattarugus to (one original, one that's most likely a repro). Nice looking knives, yes, and very good killing blades, but I sure wouldn't want to try to skin a rabbit or shave kindling with it.

There are also the large blade Bolo knives, the famous Khukri, and the Smatchet which is just from Fairbairn. All can be used in a utilitarian manner.

The Fairbairn–Sykes fighting knife is indeed lousy for utility. It's entire purpose was for use in clandestine elimination of enemy Nazi troopers. Ie For Shanking Nazi's in the dark.

It has the narrow blade so it in be mor easily thrust through narrow spots including ribs, joints, and gaps in protective clothing. It is long to ensure a deep, lethal, penetrating wound when used correctly. And it's shap eand balance are for knife fighting.

The Smatchet is kinda like a leaf bladed Machet and is patterned after a Swiss WWI trench knife. While largely intended as a fighting knife it has been reported as a quality utility knife as well.

When it comes to knife designs and knife fighting techniques the names to know are Eric Anthony Sykes, William Ewart Fairbairn, Rex Applegate, David Stirling, and a couple others I have forgotten.

But the ones I remembered are largely responsible for developing combat techniques and tools used by by vearious western special forces during WWII. Stirling is the man behind the SAS, but sadly post WWII became a thug for hire(mercenary) and a twat.

Apple Gate was mentored by Fairbairn and they developed a lot of techniques and fighting knife designs together that are still used today. Apple Gate's Kill or Be Killed is listed as Marine Corps Refrence book. It has been updated from its original publication.

Both Sykes and Fairbairn published a few books that are still refrenced for defense and fighting today.

Books for Sykes

Books for Fairbairn

So I figure this is the place to ask.

I need a knife, not some big fancy survival knife or anything, just something easily concealable to keep in the back pocket.

I know literally nothing about brands or any of that mess and you guys seem smart, any recommendations?

I'm thinking like a little folding knife, maybe one with a spring so it flips open automatically but you guys know more than I do.

That depends on what you want to use it for.

"Concealable" and "spring-opening" together sounds like "fighting".