Okay, every topic that has even remotely to do with the middle east keeps getting more general news put into it which removes focus from the original topic.
As such, I'm creating this thread as a general middle east and north africa topic. That means anything to do with the Arab Spring or Israel and Palestine should be kept to those threads and anything to do with more generic news (for example, new Saudi regulations on the number of foreign workers or the Lebanese elections next year, etc.) should be posted here.
I hope the mods will find this a clear enough statement of intent to open the thread.
Beware the Crazy Man.
Yemenis are considered "true" Arabs, so I imagine how different everyone else is compared to them.
Final Fantasy, Foreign Policy, and Bollywood. Helluva combo, that...
The Wanderer
Well, that's not really quite surprising when the Arabization of the Middle East and North Africa is mostly more cultural than genetic.
Eating a Vanilluxe will give you frostbite.
Beware the Crazy Man.
We need Marq to speak to some of this.
Final Fantasy, Foreign Policy, and Bollywood. Helluva combo, that...
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
Someone called?
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Beware the Crazy Man.
Arab genetics. Need insight.
Final Fantasy, Foreign Policy, and Bollywood. Helluva combo, that...
Erik Prince’s Mercenaries Are Bombing Libya
The Lebanese and Tunisians make a ton of sense: the mixed-bag Phonician-Caananite-Philistine-trade-trade-trade methods survived alive and well in one (and probably explains the "Jewish" heritage: it's probably better just being called "Hebraic", because I'm pretty sure those specific markers of generic mixing have some roots that are older than Judea). While getting stomped by the Romans explains why the Phoenicians of Carthage left very little in the way of genetic impact on current Tunisia. Yay, Berber genes! Yay, historical genocide?
edited 15th Jan '17 5:24:31 AM by Euodiachloris
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
You will have to be more specific than that. It's not like I'm a super-intellectual with nigh-omniscience about the Arab World. ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
A procrastination in of itself
How is an "Arab" defined? Is it purely cutulrual or also genetic? Are there levelness of Arabness? Which people groups are considered more 'true' in their Arabness than others?
Who counts as an Arab, why and are they more Arab than some other Arab?
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
... Well, if you ask me personally, I'd primarily define it culturally, with the caveat that language is an indispensible element of said cultural aspect. Genetics would have only minor importance, if any. That said, if I would ever designate any Arab group(s) as "true Arabs", it would be the Arabian peoples, who even today remain the closest in terms of culture to the Arabians from ~1400 years ago (i.e. the generation of Arabians who began spreading Arab culture and Islam to what would become the Arab world).
No idea about what the various Arab nations think about this, though. From what I can tell, even within the Saudi Arabian nation, there's no single opinion on this, only what seems like a correlation between xenophobia/(ultra)nationalism and increasing emphasis on genetic ties (i.e. the more nationalist/racist/xenophobic an Arab is, the more likely he would consider "Arab-bloodedness" as the deal-breaker for one's status as an Arab).
Sorry if I'm not much of a help. Like I said, I'm not a professional expert in the topic; my admittedly extensive knowledge of the Arab World isn't as deep as you may think.
edited 15th Jan '17 12:56:02 PM by MarqFJA
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
http://www.arabnews.com/node/1058726/saudi-arabia
Saudi Arabia has held its own Comic-Con and many with a conservative background are not happy with the mingling of men and women.
Oh, bother.
So they wanted Comic-con to either not happen or be gender segregated?
Wow...fuck'em.
Disgusted, but not surprised
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
Gender segregation is the norm in traditional Islamic societies like Saudi Arabia, though it's been eroded at an alarming rate in recent years, due to the interference of "liberal"-minded royals in the affairs and jurisdiction of the Hai'ah. (I've spoken on the subject in the past, and pointed out why that's much more of a bad thing that most people from the Western world would think; you should be able to find my relevant post in the past 5-10 pages at most, I think.)
edited 24th Feb '17 3:57:12 AM by MarqFJA
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
I can't actually find your comments on that, so please explain to me how it is dangerous for an extremist "morality police" group to have less influence on Saudi Arabia on this day and age? And what problems would a non-segregrated comic-con possibly cause?
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
And I would be careful about freely throwing out generalizations like painting the entire Hai'ah as "an extremist 'morality police' group". The extremists are a minority at most, though they're certainly much more vocal and visible (partly due to disproportionate news coverage/attention) compared to the sane moderates comprising the majority.
.
edited 26th Feb '17 11:40:56 AM by MarqFJA
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
A procrastination in of itself
I see in that post what the problem behaviour is in your view, but I still don't understand why it's problematic behaviour. I get that it's against existing traditions and standards, but presumably there is some reason that said traditions and standards are better than the new lens being expressed at such events? What are those reasons.
I get that ending gender segregations goes against currently held beliefs, what I don't understand is what the argument is in favour of the gender segregation and why gender segregations is superior to non-segregated events.
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
Well, if you believe flouting the hijab is an indecent behavior (and a problem) even by moderate standards in Arabia and that punishment of recklessness by the Hai'ah is some sort of unjust consequence of non-segregation, then we have very different views on women's issues.
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
Random question: what would have happened if the US went ahead with the Iraq War but after Sadam's death, the US just fucked off almost immediately?
Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
Probably a sectarian war, it was already brewing. Chances are the military would've taken over and continued on the usual suppression tactics i.e. kill everyone who disagrees. So things would be very similar than before the war, but worse.
edited 9th Mar '17 7:32:20 AM by TerminusEst
Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
That is essentially what happened
edited 9th Mar '17 7:31:24 AM by CenturyEye
Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
I kind of assumed he meant that the military would not be dissolved and other decisions. Blow everything up, but offer no money, no political support etc.
edited 9th Mar '17 7:33:45 AM by TerminusEst
Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
Pretty much this. The country went more or less ungoverned for quite some time. The CPA Order # 2 probably did not help. Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
Wasn't there a huge amount of money flow to the Shia's with clear favouritism to the installed party from the very beginning? The chaos of the ignited insurgency effectively meant that it didn't matter though, so what you said.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
A procrastination in of itself
A total collapse of Iraq is what would have happened, it would have made Somalia look like a calm stable developed nation.
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
Interesting, although if Arabs aren't entirely Arab then how are they defining "Arab" DNA sequences? I'm assuming the fractions refer to percentage of the population who are of X descent, rather than the genetic makeup of averaged individuals.