Cartoon Network doesn't want the female audiance

...At least for their action shows.

I posted this in the Beware the Batman thread, but it deserves it's own thread as this seems to be a problem that slithers it's way into alot of shows these days. This is transcript from about 41 minutes into Kevin Smith's Fatman on Batman podcast, and it's pretty eye opening. Prior to this portion Kevin Smith had just been told that Beware the Batman had been pulled from the line up by Paul Dini.

After this point Kevin and Paul then talk about how Adventure Time did it the right way by means of Fionna and Cake and how executives at CN don't allow creators to do their jobs.

edited 15th Dec '13 7:52:36 PM by SilentlyHonest

That just seems to be the problem with the animation model in America altogether: they see a show's potential almost exclusively in terms of merchandizing potential (and if that potential fails to materialize, it goes on the scrap-heap) although this applies more towards action cartoons rather than comedy shows. This is why Disney and Nick have veered away from animation and focused on creating tween/teen stars that they can market to hell and back (Cartoon Network themselves dabbled in this with CN Real, mostly with the Dudes and Bobb'e).

I think Dini is more talking about fiction/action series, however, but even then, Friendship Is Magic demonstrates that you can take a doll-selling vehicle in a somewhat more adventure-y direction.

It's like I said on another forum - CN isn't going to get any better, especially NOT at variety or action in general, until they do some things:

1) Gender - Neutral Leadership in charge of the network (that also understands action needs to be in place for the sake of balance and variety.).

2) Don't rely on DC or Man Of Action so much - it's not working out all that much.

(NOTE, because the cold hard truth is thus: No matter how many popular shows they have, they will still be bashed for anything they do - it won't end, but it can stand to be seriously reduced. Just one more reason I'm watching The Hub more and more, for example, but not just for those god damn overrated ponies!).

BOTTOM LINE - this old hat thinking from CN is going to keep them in decline and could put them out of business sooner or later, no matter how many 'popular' shows they have on now. One noticeably big failure in what they're trying to make popular is all tat it took in the past; same can happen here.

edited 16th Dec '13 3:14:08 AM by TheShopSoldier

The use of the term "overrated" to me sort of makes it look like you're antagonizing anyone who likes MLP.

Here's a crazy thought: Maybe you can get girls to buy action figures if you show girls playing with action figures in the commercials.

Sigh - It's like you can't express disliking things sometimes... Oh, well.

It worked for LEGO, they started showing girls in commercials and sales to girls tippled over night.

It's frankly astounding that sexism this blatant is not merely tolerated, but endorsed on the business level of children's entertainment. I hope more writers will be forthcoming about this kind of thing to enforce some kind of change.

What amazing logic they have

Marketing has and likely will always be a deeply conservative industry. If a particular dynamic works then it is imperative that you don't shake it up.

edited 16th Dec '13 9:41:07 AM by Mio

Given the extent to which Moral Guardians usually breathe down Disney's neck, you'd think this kind of shameless attitude would lead to massive boycotting of CN's material.

Moral Guardians tend to be quite conservative, so they'd generally be all for the reinforcement of gender roles like this -_-

I don't think this has to do with moral guardians.

On another note, one more thing I hate about CN and a lot of others is that they ignore their adult fanbase. A lot of kid's shows have just as many, if not more adult fans than kid fans.

edited 16th Dec '13 9:48:25 AM by BaconManiac5000

No, it doesn't have to do with Moral Guardians, I was just providing an answer as to why they aren't berating/boycotting CN on this BS.

Its too bad that they never had a property that was aimed at girls but also drew in a big male audience alongside i-OH WAIT THEY DID.

It's also how Totally Spies could survive six seasons. Yes, even though it was clearly aimed at girls, it turned out that the audience was evenly split between genders.

Wait, no, I don't understand how Totally Spies survived this long. I mean, I watched the entire series, and even though I thoroughly enjoyed the series, even I thought it was a fucking horrible show.

edited 16th Dec '13 10:18:16 AM by GaryCXJk

Ironically, this problem was actually less problematic in the 80s and 90s. Almost all of the major toy-based cartoons of the 80s had prominent female characters (Cheetara, Lady Jaye, Scarlett, Cover Girl, April O'Neil, Arcee, etc) as well as other popular female characters like Gadget and The Chipettes. And as for the 90s, just look at how popular the Powerpuff Girls were.

Or hell, Disney hit the gold mine with Kim Possible.

At least we know now why SBFF got snubbed even though that was the short people were scream the loudest for to become a full show.

I hope more writers will be forthcoming about this kind of thing to enforce some kind of change.

Dini has always been quite open about that kind of shady behind the scenes logics and inane showbiz reasonings. Check his Batman: Harley and Ivy comics miniseries for an earlier, hilariously scathing remark on it.

He's also been quite vocal about the way Filmation treated their writing talent, but that's probably neither here or now to discuss.

SBFF?

Super Best Friends Forever. Granted, I think the demand for a show based on those shorts was almost entirely out of hype surrounding Friendship is Magic and Lauren Faust's involvement, rather than the shorts themselves being all that spectacular. Being girl-based can't have helped much, though.

They need to be replaced. I cannot believe shows that had massive followings were canceled for completely sexist reasons and now everyone feels like their last years were lies. But its' better now, because now the truth is out, and we shall strike back because of it!

Haha. Sure.

I'm with Canid on this.

Every year there's a scandal because someone important in a media industry said women can f*ck off, and everyone is outraged and swears vengeance upon their industry, and then nothing changes and next year, there's another scandal. It's gotten to the point that saying, "X media doesn't care about women," isn't even controversial anymore. We've all just sort of accepted it. And that's terrible.

People are going to complain and be angry and swear vengeance, and perhaps, if we're lucky, the executive in question will make a backhanded political apology in an interview down the road, but it won't affect anyone's bottom line and no corporate policies will change as a result of this scandal, because at the end of the day, everyone's going to go right on consuming their products anyway, and to a business, that's all that matters.

If anything, their ratings might even improve, as these statements will get people looking more critically at their lineup and going, "Wow, it's true, NONE of these shows are written with girls in m—ooh, hey, that one looks kinda cool."

edited 16th Dec '13 2:19:45 PM by TobiasDrake

I saw this commercial where these people were gathered around a sink in a bathroom that was on.

They were all complaining about the horrible person that left it on, until a random person walked by and turned it off.

Then it said something like, "Don't talk about problems, do something about them."

I still find it funny.