Ukraine protests: Thousands march through capital
- over 100,000 by some counts
Ukrainian protesters besiege government building
Clashes amid huge Ukraine protest against U-turn on EU
Over 300,000 defy protest ban in Ukraine- "Fierce clashes erupt after protesters take to streets again, chanting "revolution" as anger against government grows."
What started as a protest against the decision not to sign an agreement with the EU seems to have escalated into a "Color Revolution" or "Arab Spring" style movement to force the government to resign. By some reports, the police are using violent tactics to suppress the street protests.
The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country. The current regime of President Viktor Yanukovich is part of that camp. The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society.
EDIT (2/24/2022)
This thread was originally opened in 2013 during the beginning of the revolt in Ukraine that eventually over-threw the dictatorship of the Yanukovyich regime and instituted democratic elections soon afterward. As of this writing, in the aftermath of the Russian invasion that began on 2/23, it is not clear whether or for how long Ukraine will continue to exist as an independent country.
Statements made nine years ago still seem relevant: "The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country... The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society." Some people have expressed the view that the confrontation between Russia and Ukraine, beginning in 2014, never really ended.
The invasion is also a result of certain grievances proclaimed by Vladimir Putin, the current President of Russia, and used by him as justification for armed attack and occupation. Western governments, and others around the world, have joined together in condemnation of this attack.
While we do not know what the ultimate outcome of these events will be, this thread will continue to be made available as a place to record news, ask questions and express opinions about the "Crisis in Ukraine."
This map will help track the latest developments.
Do not post anything about the Ukrainian military movement and strategy. This could actually result in casualties.
No discussion regarding nuclear war. As nuclear weapons are not being used by either side, nuclear war is off-topic.
When posting social media links, please (1) state the source [e.g. Reuters reporter? State-sponsored Facebook account? Civilian Twitter?] (2) clarify if it is fact or opinion and (3) summarize the information being presented.
Edited by Tabs on Mar 20th 2022 at 4:26:26 AM
I suppose it's only natural for me to relate it to American history. It all seems very reminiscent of the stereotypical scene where the settlers are all celebrating the fact that they've just become a state and how America is fulfilling its "manifest destiny" and occasionally someone thinks, "Oh yeah, the Indians. I guess we'll have to move them or whatever."
Especially as half of our "justification" for this whole mess is "We were just following America's example"
For a country so focused on rejecting the "Western" influence we seem ridiculously prone to borrowing the worst examples
If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in common
Beware the Crazy Man.
I think it's meant as a sort of reverse psychology to get the US to stop its own great power games. Which, in turn, leaves Russia to do its own thing.
In a way, it's working. If Europe wasn't already taking point on this issue, this would have been another Georgia, where the US had taken point...only to have Europe be the one to actually get a solution with the ceasefire.
Final Fantasy, Foreign Policy, and Bollywood. Helluva combo, that...
Who Am I?
As far as Crimea is concerned, in one sense we dont need a "solution", the crisis is basically over, with just the mopping up to do (we dont yet know how the Ukrainian military personnel are going to get home, but apparently they have until Friday to figure it out).
On to the next crisis. Where will it be? It might actually be in Ukraine- esp. if Putin turns off the gas.
"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."
Russian state television announced that Crimean authorities apprehended the sniper who scored both fatalities in the recent siege on the topography outpost. He's apparently a 17 year old from Lviv, speculated to be affiliated with Right Sector. Provocateur, maybe?
edited 19th Mar '14 9:35:09 AM by amitakartok
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I'm sure that's how his confession will read, yes. Under the bloodstains.
Did you know this section has a character limit?
So, a 17 year old made it across a closed border, found a sniper rifle, and started taking potshots at a base surrounded by Russian Soldiers.
In other news, Fertilizer prices drop as Russia shows off world's largest pile of bullshit.
Could he have happened to have been in Crimea before the border was closed?
Across the closed border? He might very well had already been in Crimea.
That being said, 17 year old sniper sounds very unlikely
Also, Russian news insist that one Russian soldier and one Crimean self-defence were also shot at the same encounter.
edited 19th Mar '14 9:47:13 AM by Beholderess
If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in common
HGW XX/7
Shut up and fix your economy, darling.
Schild und Schwert der Partei
You're expecting a politician to do actual work?
"Yup. That tasted purple."
Go away, Argentina. Your claim is a joke anyway.
When in deadly danger, When beset by doubt, Run in little circles, Wave your arms and shout.
BBC BREAKING NEWS: Ukraine 'preparing withdrawal of troops from Crimea'
Andriy Parubiy said they wanted to move them "quickly and efficiently" to mainland Ukraine.
17 year old sniper from Lviv is as credible as the White Tights, I'm afraid.
Interesting that in Ukrainian media - if such an accusation is made, then photos and videos and names and other information that supports it appear. While in Russia, there's only vagueness. This particular news - denied.
One man of Crimean self-defense was killed - who is he? What is his name? What village/town did he come from? Where are his photos?
Instead we have lots of information about the shot Ukrainian (media already found his relatives, photos, etc.) and none about the shot Crimean.
Should have done this a week ago and then this charade would not have happened.
Ukraine is leaving the CIS, by the way.
And don't know if the BBC misinterpreted or I missed something, but, in his briefing, Parubiy did not say anything about withdrawal of troops. He said they are drawing up plans to evacuate any civilian citizens that are feeling endangered in Crimea. He also called on Crimea to be declared a demilitarized zone.
edited 19th Mar '14 11:48:24 AM by emuran
Khto tse, mamo-mamo?
Who Am I?
"Ukraine is leaving the CIS, by the way." No, really?
"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."
Here it is seen as a huge step, with far more impact than breaking off diplomatic relations with Russia. That also means that Ukraine are leaving themselves with no other choice but the EU because of economic reasons. And no visa-free passage between Russia and Ukraine, as well.
The leader of the separatist "Donetsk republic" movement has been arrested for, well... separatism.
And Terminator-Yulya Tymoshenko has returned to Ukraine.
Still no commands given to the troops in Crimea. The situation with soldiers is paradoxical - they are allowed to shoot, but at the same time they can't shoot. As no war alert has been declared, only territory guards are allowed to shoot at trespassers, any other soldiers would be immediately court-martialed. Stupid situation.
The impression is that the Ukraine government is lagging behind a week in time. And they also seem to have no exact plan on what to do with Crimea.
edited 19th Mar '14 11:56:12 AM by emuran
Khto tse, mamo-mamo?
Does it occur to anyone else that it will be easier for Ukraine to go in a pro-Western direction without the pro-Russia voting bloc in Crimea?
Does not matter. Pro-Russia bloc (Party of Regions and the Communists) already lost a huge part of their ratings due to the whole revolution thing, so they are not exactly a deciding political force now.
And I missed it, Parubiy did mention that evacuation plans will be developed the Cabinet of Ministers as soon as possible. Sorry.
And Russia's UN representative has just shown the Svoboda's deputies beating up the TV CEO as an example of "rampant fascism".
Actually, it is very interesting that a lot of the ultra-nationalist Svoboda's actions have played straight into the hands of Kremlin and its propaganda. Suspiciously so.
edited 19th Mar '14 1:01:31 PM by emuran
Khto tse, mamo-mamo?
Beware the Crazy Man.
That doesn't mean the pro-Russian side will cease to be. Whether that means forming another party or rehabilitating current parties, they will voice their interests whenever and wherever the Kiev government fails to meet them.
Indeed.
EDIT- About the CIS, Kiev would have had to do that anyway if they signed up to the Association Agreement, at least vis a vis the more practical benefits of being part of the CIS in the first place, which is trade. Still, symbolic act and all that.
edited 19th Mar '14 1:14:47 PM by FFShinra
Final Fantasy, Foreign Policy, and Bollywood. Helluva combo, that...
A bit too many coincidences for all this to be chalked up to stupidity.
Khto tse, mamo-mamo?
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
So either the Russians predicted how nazis like to act and their likely course of action and the nazis are dipshits.
Or they're just puppets for Russia so they have an excuse to go about annexing things.
Honestly both situations are pretty likely.
Oh really when?
You summed it up pretty well.
Miroshnychenko is now on Hromadske TV, alleging he "did not beat or use force against anyone" and accuses all the journalists "of showing a manipulative video that distorts the facts to discredit the party Svoboda, who has been defending the interests of Ukraine and Ukrainians". Dare I remind him that the video was filmed and first uploaded to the internet by his colleague Oleksandr Aronets.
To which TV anchorman Roman Skrypin answers - "If you want to defend the interests of Ukraine, do so in Crimea"
A fire has been put out near the headquarters of Maydan's self-defense. Will go and take a look at it.
There was an unsuccessful attempt to storm the Belbek Air Base this evening, according to the press release of the base. They are now streaming the situation live, but it seems calm so far, the Russians/Crimeans have retreated.
edited 19th Mar '14 1:57:15 PM by emuran
Khto tse, mamo-mamo?
There's quite a lot of that in European history. But yeah, the Tartars have not, historically, drawn the long straw.
Schild und Schwert der Partei