Ukraine protests: Thousands march through capital
- over 100,000 by some counts
Ukrainian protesters besiege government building
Clashes amid huge Ukraine protest against U-turn on EU
Over 300,000 defy protest ban in Ukraine- "Fierce clashes erupt after protesters take to streets again, chanting "revolution" as anger against government grows."
What started as a protest against the decision not to sign an agreement with the EU seems to have escalated into a "Color Revolution" or "Arab Spring" style movement to force the government to resign. By some reports, the police are using violent tactics to suppress the street protests.
The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country. The current regime of President Viktor Yanukovich is part of that camp. The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society.
EDIT (2/24/2022)
This thread was originally opened in 2013 during the beginning of the revolt in Ukraine that eventually over-threw the dictatorship of the Yanukovyich regime and instituted democratic elections soon afterward. As of this writing, in the aftermath of the Russian invasion that began on 2/23, it is not clear whether or for how long Ukraine will continue to exist as an independent country.
Statements made nine years ago still seem relevant: "The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country... The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society." Some people have expressed the view that the confrontation between Russia and Ukraine, beginning in 2014, never really ended.
The invasion is also a result of certain grievances proclaimed by Vladimir Putin, the current President of Russia, and used by him as justification for armed attack and occupation. Western governments, and others around the world, have joined together in condemnation of this attack.
While we do not know what the ultimate outcome of these events will be, this thread will continue to be made available as a place to record news, ask questions and express opinions about the "Crisis in Ukraine."
This map will help track the latest developments.
Do not post anything about the Ukrainian military movement and strategy. This could actually result in casualties.
No discussion regarding nuclear war. As nuclear weapons are not being used by either side, nuclear war is off-topic.
When posting social media links, please (1) state the source [e.g. Reuters reporter? State-sponsored Facebook account? Civilian Twitter?] (2) clarify if it is fact or opinion and (3) summarize the information being presented.
Edited by Tabs on Mar 20th 2022 at 4:26:26 AM
The Luhansk airport has been lost to the separatists.
Khto tse, mamo-mamo?
If they're not being used in the counteroffensive, then what are the T-84s being used for?
The Ukrainian Minister of Defense Heletey says the ATO is over, tells to prepare for "full-scale warfare".
Khto tse, mamo-mamo?
I'm going to venture a guess that the airport is near the eastern coast?
Eastern frontier, yes. Not that close, though.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Shameful Display
Russia and China begin construction of new pipeline Aw look Putin's making friends.
Heletey also said that Russia may use nuclear weapons against Ukraine (Yeah, sure).
Four-way talks begin in Minsk, the separatists want autonomy, special privileges, officialization of Russian language.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Off topic. That goes in the Russian Politics thread.
edited 1st Sep '14 7:09:07 AM by emuran
Khto tse, mamo-mamo?
Shameful Display
It does mean that China is far less likely to oppose Russian actions in Ukraine but I digress, I didn't know their was a Russian politics thread.
Russian backed bailiffs have seized property in Crimea belonging to Ihor Kolomoisnsky,acusing him of backing "terrorism" Now that's just petty.
edited 1st Sep '14 7:18:41 AM by JackOLantern1337
I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
China is going to stay non-committal and neutral on Ukraine unless something happens that is going to directly threaten their interests, which is extremely unlikely.
Khto tse, mamo-mamo?
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
Those T-84s are Ukraine's final line of defense for when things get properly bad if I remember right.
Oh really when?
Yeah, the Oplots and the BTR-4 will only be used in extreme cases.
Ukrainian forces are retreating fast.
For the first time, commander Semenchenko has removed his balaclava.
Shameful Display
According to the BBC 700 Ukrainian soldiers have been taken captive since the offensive started. Also,if their map is to be believed,the DPR and the LPR have reestablished land links.
Party Crasher
Putin: 'I can take Kiev in two weeks, if I want.'
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
Well he's not wrong.
Holding it for an extended period of time is a completely different matter.
Oh really when?
Shameful Display
What would be the reaction of the average Ukrainian if the country was forced to cead the east, especially area's like Mariupol that don't want to leave?
I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Party Crasher
Well, I suppose the same reaction an average American would have if a numerically & technologically superior Canada invaded and annexed New England.
It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.
Short term? Poroshenko would get Maydanned. Even now, the situation has gotten extremely tense in Kyiv in the last few days, with every town lost bringing popular discontent closer and closer to a boiling point.
Don't they know that turning against the government right now would be the worst thing to do? Last thing the police and military need is to worry about is a riot within the capitol, and Moscow would also probably try to capitalize upon the situation by saying it's proof that the current regime is an unpopular fascist puppet.
Shameful Display
And they could use that as an excuse to gobble up the whole country.
Party Crasher
Unlikely. First off, the ensuing insugrency would make any long-term occupation infeasible. Secondly, NATO & the EU ain't gonna let Russian troops march into the heart of Europe.
It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
That land bridge to Crimea might be a possibility though but I can't imagine much more than that.
Speaking of, how is Crimea lately?
edited 1st Sep '14 11:32:25 AM by LeGarcon
Oh really when?
V
After all, wasn't the further march West of Russian/Soviet troops something NATO was created to stop?
Still there. 
edited 1st Sep '14 11:33:15 AM by Greenmantle
Keep Rolling On
Party Crasher
Yep. Can you imagine Russian troops patrolling the border with Slovakia? Germany is gonna have a spaz.
Can't really blame the Russians for taking Crimea. Those beaches are sweeet.
edited 1st Sep '14 11:39:25 AM by LogoP
It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.
Shameful Display
I never said it would be a wise move, however the string of defeats Ukraine has suffered,along with the indecisiveness of the west, and splinters within the EU, may make Putin think he can get away with it. He will probably use some bit of convoluted logic like, Russia is the direct successor to the Soviet Union, hence all former Soviet Republics are breakaway provinces.
I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28951324
Profiles of some of those European foreign volunteers serving on either side. Some are essentially mercs while the others are from some really nasty far-right or far-left groups. None of them look remotely clean.
edited 31st Aug '14 9:15:06 PM by Rationalinsanity
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.