Ukraine protests: Thousands march through capital
- over 100,000 by some counts
Ukrainian protesters besiege government building
Clashes amid huge Ukraine protest against U-turn on EU
Over 300,000 defy protest ban in Ukraine- "Fierce clashes erupt after protesters take to streets again, chanting "revolution" as anger against government grows."
What started as a protest against the decision not to sign an agreement with the EU seems to have escalated into a "Color Revolution" or "Arab Spring" style movement to force the government to resign. By some reports, the police are using violent tactics to suppress the street protests.
The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country. The current regime of President Viktor Yanukovich is part of that camp. The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society.
EDIT (2/24/2022)
This thread was originally opened in 2013 during the beginning of the revolt in Ukraine that eventually over-threw the dictatorship of the Yanukovyich regime and instituted democratic elections soon afterward. As of this writing, in the aftermath of the Russian invasion that began on 2/23, it is not clear whether or for how long Ukraine will continue to exist as an independent country.
Statements made nine years ago still seem relevant: "The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country... The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society." Some people have expressed the view that the confrontation between Russia and Ukraine, beginning in 2014, never really ended.
The invasion is also a result of certain grievances proclaimed by Vladimir Putin, the current President of Russia, and used by him as justification for armed attack and occupation. Western governments, and others around the world, have joined together in condemnation of this attack.
While we do not know what the ultimate outcome of these events will be, this thread will continue to be made available as a place to record news, ask questions and express opinions about the "Crisis in Ukraine."
This map will help track the latest developments.
Do not post anything about the Ukrainian military movement and strategy. This could actually result in casualties.
No discussion regarding nuclear war. As nuclear weapons are not being used by either side, nuclear war is off-topic.
When posting social media links, please (1) state the source [e.g. Reuters reporter? State-sponsored Facebook account? Civilian Twitter?] (2) clarify if it is fact or opinion and (3) summarize the information being presented.
Edited by Tabs on Mar 20th 2022 at 4:26:26 AM
Moscow isn't stupid enough to do that, the entire world would call them on it. And the rebels know they are walking on thin ice as it is.
edited 21st Jul '14 5:56:58 AM by Rationalinsanity
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
BBC BREAKING NEWS: Train with MH17 bodies on the move
Officials say the train will go to Kharkiv, but there is no confirmation.
Pro-Russian separatists, who are in control of the crash site, had placed the remains of the passengers of flight MH 17 in refrigerated carriages.
Western countries say the plane was shot down by the rebels. There has been heavy fighting in the main rebel-held city of Donetsk on Monday.
edited 21st Jul '14 9:41:34 AM by Deadbeatloser22
"Yup. That tasted purple."
Methinks that these people don't have much of an idea on how to handle the disaster area. Refrigerated wagons would be my first idea too.
Also, " There has been heavy fighting in the main rebel-held city of Donetsk on Monday."
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
How the Russian public is "informed" about MH17
edited 21st Jul '14 10:39:41 AM by Antiteilchen
Yeah, and it leads to Even Journalists Have Standards moments like this one.
edited 21st Jul '14 11:27:21 AM by MattStriker
Jupiterian Local
Lovely. There's a very good reason why a free press is a basic civil right.
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Russian bloggers darkly joke that the creators of Sherlock should sue the authors of "the plane was initially full of corpses" theory.
Radical Moderate
In terms of non-plane related news, this is one of the most intense videos I've seen recently. A helpful reminder that there are some sketchy populist types on the Ukrainian side of the conflict as well.
Never Trust
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
x8 If you look at Antiteichen's post it's not any wilder than some of the theories being floated like the plane actually being the other Malaysian plane that went down or it already being filled with corpses (or both) or that it was meant to be an assassination attempt on Putin.
The Malaysian PM has announced that they successfully parlayed with Borodai for the plane's black box; the box will be given to Malaysia, not Russia or the Ukrainian government.
Also according to the agreement, the bodies of the victims will be taken to Kharkov for airlift to Amsterdam with a Netherlands military plane.
A procrastination in of itself
The plane they've airlifting the bodies out on, the rebels are aware of exactly what it looks like and where it's going to be flying right?
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Kharkiv is outside the rebel-controlled area, and too far away for missiles.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Radical Moderate
Rebel leader Alexander Borodai is currently speaking. Says the train with the bodies is in Donetsk right now, en route to Kharkhiv.
And the black boxes are passed to the Malaysians — at 1:10 AM Ukraine time, and after four hours of surreal negotiations.
edited 21st Jul '14 3:13:31 PM by BokhuraBurnes
First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win.
They aren't stupid enough to pull anything. After being accused of being the ones who shot down the civilian plane, pulling a repeat performance with another foreign plane would practically be suicide - especially since the plane in question is a military aircraft, meaning that shooting it down will be an act of war towards the Netherlands.
A procrastination in of itself
My post was intended a a bit of dark humour, I probably should have tagged it as such. 
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
I'd seriously hate to add more salt to the humor, but I can't help but wince that you might just be Tempting Fate with that comment.
Then again, it's nice to see the separatists cave in for once - hopefully they can keep their sanity going, and presumably, will have to seriously reform their forces into a much more coherent organization.
About crazy theories - heard several people sincerely argue that not only the plane was initially full of corpses with fake freshly-printed passports, that all the passenger identities are fake and they even registered on Facebook at the same day, but even that it is exactly the same Malaysian plane that went missing recently. That it was hijacked for specifically that purpose. All in order to blame Russia.
Not making this up (facepalm)
If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in common
...
...
...
Uh.
edited 21st Jul '14 7:58:54 PM by Quag15
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
This post upwards on the page basically sums up the Russian media's reporting on the subject - God they make Fox News look tame by comparison.
My God that Great* (heh) Russian nationalism of theirs. 
edited 21st Jul '14 8:40:19 PM by FluffyMcChicken
The Ukrainian media is just as bad. And all the western media's assumptions of Putin's Bond Villain nature also count.
There is enough media bs to go around.
There is one difference, though.
If you stretch the evidence enough, you just may be able to claim that Putin or "the Russians" (I kind of expect that some Russians will be supporting the rebels - and some even the Ukrainians - even if the Kremlin isn't involved) is responsible.
Most of what it being presented as anti-Ukrainian attitudes seems like it's completely made up by a diseased mind.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Russian media isn't all bad. Of course, the state-owned TV channels are full of propaganda, but you can find something less biased if you know where to look.
For example, during the Maidan protest I've read the Lenta news agency—they were quite objective and readily reported all the facts. Alas, later they got in trouble with the law because of an interview with some Right Sector guy(which counts as extremism by the Russian laws). There was no prosecution, but still the holding owner fired the Editor-in-Chief. Many journalists also were fired or quit in protest, and now Lenta is, alas, considerably less objective.
If the Russians can be blamed for what the rebels did just because they support them, the idea that Ukraine was at fault because there was a conflict in the first place as a direct consequence of the new government's decisions doesn't sound all that much of a stretch itself (even though it, like the culpability of Moscow, is).
My point is, the fact that stretching is required at all by anyone is making the whole media coverage, regardless of the side, an exercise in the absurd.
edited 22nd Jul '14 1:15:01 AM by FFShinra
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
From the Malaysian Star newspaper today, we have questionably factual statements, wishful thinking and wishful thinking Up To Eleven.
As you may have guessed, I really don't think much of this International Movement for a Just World circus. If anything it's probably a monument to Malaysian naivete (or I really am The Cynic).
EDIT: Wait, what? Asking the UN Security Council? How on earth will that not get vetoed?
edited 22nd Jul '14 1:17:48 AM by Krieger22
I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
I'm surprised that weapons haven't been "discovered" in the cargo hold and the passengers declared to have been mercenaries.
edited 21st Jul '14 5:38:56 AM by tricksterson
Trump delenda est