Complaining: Running The Asylum

Deadlock Clock: 8th Jan 2014 11:59:00 PM
Total posts: [73]
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Taking Back our 40 acres
Ok, this trope has severe issues.

For one, it's alleged purpose "Fans in Charge" is covered by "Ascended Fan."

But what it really is is a full page that says "This reads like fanfic."

So it's an entire page on the site dedicated to not only complaining; but complaining with a puffery buzzword.

I recommend a declawing and a fold into Ascended Fan or at least a No Examples Please section with a paragraph on it being a common fan complaint.
Casual talk is a debate you have to win.
2 SeptimusHeap23rd Nov 2013 11:58:14 AM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
Ascended Fan refers to the fan in question, not to the franchise, though.
[up]What he said, one is a case of a single fan become part of the staff or cast, and the other is for when something has gone so long that the entire team were fans prior to working on it.
"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
This trope shouldn't have anything to do with quality. It's about a franchise running long enough that its writers are former fans. It's fanfic - not because "it sucks so hard that it's practically indistinguishable from fanfic" but because it is written by fans, so it is literally indistinguishable from fanfic.
[up]That. The issue is people assuming fanfic is always bad, when that's not the case.
"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
I made a page about this a long while ago, and IIRC the consensus at the time was "a work that starts to read like fanfiction".

I didn't completely agree with that decision, so I'm not surprised to see this back here again.

edited 23rd Nov '13 5:37:58 PM by KingZeal

7 nrjxll23rd Nov 2013 05:40:54 PM , Relationship Status: Not war
Personally, I stand by my last post in that thread:

Perhaps overly specific, and almost certainly subjective, but my understanding of the trope's most common form was "Promoted Fanboy alters work to be more like it was when he was reading it". Probably not a good definition if we want to lock down the complaining, but it would probably be how I would sum up the trope as it is.
8 SeptimusHeap24th Nov 2013 01:51:44 AM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
Most of the examples seem to me like "fans are writing the franchise in a significant way".
Taking Back our 40 acres
The examples are mostly complaints of the like 'X is a fanboy turning Y into his personal fanfic"

Not to mention it not being a trope; it shouldnt even be talking about the quality sense it's raw meaning is "This show is all run by former fans" in which case it's just The Same, but More for Ascended Fan.
Casual talk is a debate you have to win.
10 SeptimusHeap24th Nov 2013 04:58:33 AM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
That doesn't read like a complaint. And an Ascended Fanboy is something different than Running the Asylum - a person-based trope and a franchise-based one aren't The Same, but More.
Taking Back our 40 acres
I just went to the trope to try to edit it to sanity but it's rotted to deep.

The whole of the comic books folder for example boucnes back and forth to "This creator did X: RUNNING THE ASYLUM" to "This creator is just a fanboy:RUNNING THE ASYLUM"

What is RTA's actual point? If it's "Offcial Fiction is like fanfic" it's just a puffery subjective complaint based on no firm criteria besides "I didnt like it." If it's "Official fiction is made by fans" it's Ascended Fanboy and if it's "Official Fiction that used to be fanfic" it's Ascended Fanon.

It's either a complaint trope or redundant.

edited 24th Nov '13 5:12:36 AM by hyperalbion

Casual talk is a debate you have to win.
12 SeptimusHeap24th Nov 2013 05:16:25 AM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
Well, looking at the definitions of the pages you mentioned ... (sorry for repeating my argument)

Running the Asylum is "a franchise expands into a Long Runner, themes, ideas, and interpretations will inevitably start being lifted from the fanbase". The page describes the general effects it has on the franchise (which are often negative).

Ascended Fanon is "Fanon is "promoted" to Canon mainly because the theme or subject of the fanon had not been planned out by the author beforehand." Not the same process as the fans becoming writers for the main franchise themselves.

Promoted Fanboy (Ascended Fanboy is In-Universe) is "Somehow they've managed to be a part of the very industry—or even sometimes the exact show—that they're a fan of." It's a supertrope of Running the Asylum, but it deals with specific writers.

That said, I do not see why Dork Age and other YMMV items should be mentioned in the example list. I'll pare them out if we go for that.

edited 24th Nov '13 5:40:00 AM by SeptimusHeap

I feel like, regardless of its actual definition, the page is too rooted in complaining about certain developments in comic books in the last decade.
Taking Back our 40 acres
I agree with Morgan, I tried to edit it but it's literally become so rotted it's first entries lino to DC/Marvel Dork Age

If we are going by [up][up]that from them everything on the page that doesnt specifically reference something pulled from the fanbase (in which case I still think that's Ascended Fanon but whatever) it needs t be purged.

Or, since it's not a trope anyway and seems of little value; we should no example or delete it.
Casual talk is a debate you have to win.
Taking Back our 40 acres
I'm bumping this because this needs to be discuses; I cant just do a full purge like I want to . I suggest a no examples please with the page serving as a definition of a fandom phenomena.

Any legitimate taxonomy in the page would be better served by a more well managed new trope such as Seminal Installment
Casual talk is a debate you have to win.
16 Larkmarn3rd Dec 2013 06:45:30 PM , Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
The only thing I could see is a merge of Running the Asylum into Ascended Fanboy; they essentially cover the same basic concept.

Renaming Running the Asylum seems unlikely, as it's a pretty widespread preexisting term.
Taking Back our 40 acres
In which case I vote for a No Examples, Please a clarification of it's definition and leaving it at that.

Anything else can be handled better by actual tropes.
Casual talk is a debate you have to win.
[up][up][citation needed]. Is this term actually used to describe this specific phenomenon for reasons other than that TV Tropes does?
Taking Back our 40 acres
The very title itself reeks of bias and negative connotation.
Casual talk is a debate you have to win.
I'd say Running the Asylum basically looks like an intentional bashing page. And under a name that means insanity, what else can you expect?
21 Larkmarn4th Dec 2013 05:29:57 AM , Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
[up][up][up] Upon further review, it's not as common as I thought. It's a fairly common expression in The Transformers fandom, but googling isn't turning up much for Running the Asylum being used in this way colloquially, and instead just means that crazy people are in charge.

Well, I learned something new.
Taking Back our 40 acres
In which case I suggest we delete it.

If any aspects of it were of value they can be put into new tropes with a more proper context on YKTTW.
Casual talk is a debate you have to win.
23 Willbyr5th Jan 2014 05:42:20 AM from North Little Rock, AR , Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Clock is set.
Taking Back our 40 acres
Well then, I think we should go forward then, what is the Community Cosensus here?

edited 5th Jan '14 2:08:01 PM by HyperAlbion

Casual talk is a debate you have to win.
Looking at the arguments on this thread, I'm going to vote to scrap this. As Albion said, if there's anything worth salvaging, it can by brought up in YKTTW.

Page Action: Running The Asylum 2
8th Jan '14 9:34:58 AM
What would be the best way to fix the page?
At issue:

Total posts: 73
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