Trans-Pacific Partnership and Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership

I'd expect more active discussion here

Also, here's a big thing: the pharmaceutical and tobacco lobbies will be furious that the USTR compromised and denied them what they wanted from the TPP, and they will lobby against the TPP in retaliation.

So we're not screwing over other countries' prescriptions schemes? Sweet.

It would be funny if the negotiations killed most of the really toxic stuff about this, and so big business throws a tantrum and the Republicans kill it.

What, you've never heard of a monetary union. They're not that uncommon, especially for smaller countries using the currency of a much larger, economically more powerful neighbour. I'm fairly certain that several countries now using the Euro got in because they were in pre-existing unions with larger, founding members (Andorra, the Vatican and Monacco for example).

(Krugman) TPP: Take Two

So, Krugman's noting that the deal basically has pissed off a lot of businesses and the Right.

• Big Pharma didn't get the huge heavy restrictions on Biologics it wanted.
• Big Tobacco is furious because their industry isn't included in the corporate tribunals.
• The deal apparently comes with strong protections for Labor that weren't in the deal before, infuriating Republicans.

So while it's probably still toxic, it's likely to draw a lot of fire from big industries and Republicans. It looks a lot less worse than it did apparently. But Krugman plans to give a better review when more details come forth.

A left-right coalition to take it down, probably.

If any of the stupid 'stalk the internet to find all the piracy' provisions are in, I expect Silicon Valley and IS Ps to stand against it.

Drug and Tobacco didn't get what they wanted.

Last I heard, in Canada, the deal is tied to the Tories, who are increasingly not doing too hot.

Republicans don't want more labor protections.

Yeah, this is probably going to take a lot to get through, if at all.

Which is funny, because labor complains that trade-deal protections have always been ineffective, but they're taboo for the anti-worker crowd.

There's a growing European movement over the Atlantic version. Those in charge tell you its all about tariffs. In reality there are few tariffs left. The US Farmers organisation, for example, want it because it means we won't be able to keep the stuffed full-of-chemicals meat, or chlorine washed chicken, out. H&S will basically be lowest common denominator.

In summary, a perfect storm of things I already expected. Obama is going to find it incredibly difficult to pass a trade agreement that has some heavy bipartisan opposition. The Democrats already hate the TPP as it is, but the compromises needed to actually sign it could destroy destroy Republican support as well.

And the Speakership elections seem determined to drive the Republicans as far right as possible. And Hillary just came out against the damn thing (political convenience most definitely assured), meaning it's likely other Dems will follow suit. Basically the Democrats have moved too left, and the Republicans too right for this to pass, potentially.

It was said that the TPP is a way for the US to block China from using its national wealth to gain influence and favour from other nations. I would like to have opinions of actual USA citizens on this speculation.

Also, I read some old articles which claimed that TPP will force its signatories to ease up media regulations and censorship. Is that true?

edited 8th Oct '15 5:22:07 AM by murazrai

People say Hilary (and other politicians like her) just now speaking out against TPP is her riding the thunder of the people who have opposed TPP since its inception.

There are people who think that someone isn't allowed to change their opinion or taking outside advice into their opinions, because it gives the impression of inconsistency or dishonesty.

Yes, I think it's clear from this where I stand...

, I think in Hillary's case, her sudden opposition to the TPP is political opportunism, but as long as it's continuing to work in the favor of the general public I'll accept it.

I think it was originally intended to be an economic block in China's path, but the method it uses (putting corporate interests above any national goverments) is a very, very poor one. And everything I've heard, it certainly won't ease media regulations, it'll make them harsher to try and stop digital piracy, because that's worked so well.

Here's the paradoxal question we should ask politics corporations.

Their anti-personal laws like drug monopolies and SOPA 2.0 are gonna greatly decrease the number of customers, either through boycott, sudden increase in felonies (because so much as sharing songs becomes illegal) or preventable death (coughdrugpriceincreasecough) that even with the 1%, they're not gonna stay afloat. So the question is: Are you aware that TPP will lose customers more than gain?

I'm not talking about that in the sense of copy protection, DRM and the like, but in the sense of media classifications and boulderization (or lack of it).

To that, I honestly don't know.

Will it take less than a single fiscal year for them to lose their customer base? Because if the answer is no, then they won't care. Next quarters profits are more important than next years, or next decades profits.

And now the final negotiated text regarding IP is released.

Japan has officially released the text of TPP, but the text is Japanese. I wondered if other governments will do the same.

Interesting. It wasn't supposed to be officially released until after the Canadian elections on the 19th. Translators will have this out in the open fast.

So exactly how bad is it? Full panic mode time?

Tangent just told me the IP chapter has been leaked.

This looks really fucking bad guys.

edited 9th Oct '15 10:58:10 AM by rmctagg09

Not to mention that Obama says that we'll only see the text once it passes legislation.

From what i saw, it's mostly just bringing the others in line with US IP law. Or is it actually worse on things like fair use?

Either way, congress couldn't get a vote to pay themselves passed right now, we don't have much to worry about (especially since other provisions are not as bad as big business wanted).