The Defenders

Sorry, could you elaborate on this please?

Edited by windleopard on Oct 4th 2018 at 4:06:45 AM

A lot of the flashier street leveled villains simply can't be used because their powers would murder the special effects budget. Iron Fist 2 had less episodes entirely due to this, even if that ended up being for the better pacing wise.

Secondly is the verisimilitude these shows run off of. The Purple Man, a character with one of the more outlandish powers so far, is praised for how he's turned into a rape culture metaphor AND lacks his distinctive purple skin because it would be a hard sell for the tone being set by Jessica Jones. Every other villain has been some variation of a gun-toting thug, martial artist, or person with the barest of super strength.

Edited by VeryMelon on Oct 5th 2018 at 7:33:48 AM

That’s the first part summed up. As for the second, the Netflix shows have been slowly building up for greater threats to the heroes over time, and in the first few seasons in between building up the Hand, who they chose to make a cabal of undying but otherwise normal ninjas. At the beginning of Defenders, Electra was pretty much the only villain on Luke’s level that they had introduced, and that took two seasons to do so.

Luke’s show only just introduced someone who could fight him evenly in its second season. Danny’s show, likewise, also showcased a hint of comics flash with David.

Another issue is access, though. Daredevil, especially, shares a lot of villains and a few supporting characters with Spider-Man, whose rogues gallery gets a bit more powerful, but most of whom they obviously won’t be using.

I want them to do a huge buildup for the next Daredevil villain, like an ARG and everything, and have it very obviously be Stiltman in all the promo shots.

I believe you mean Davis.

Davos.

Dave-O.

Day-vos.

Fighter of the Night-vos.

Daisuke

Dai Gurren

Day-o, me say daaaaaay-o.

I wish they would have went further in dealing with the psychological effects of Elektra's resurrection, as well as being manipulated as Alexandra’s “daughter”. That could have made her into an even more sympathetic character. Especially considering that the sort of brainwashing Alexandra was subjecting Elektra to doesn't seem too different from what Fisk did with Dex in Daredevil season 3.

Of course, one difference exists between Dex and Elektra. Elektra had a ton of potential but it did stumble in that neither Daredevil season 2 nor The Defenders ever really treated as a point of view character the way the shows did so effectively with so many others. Instead, we experience Elektra mainly through the way Matt feels about her and not as much through her own traumas, which are hinted at but never fully realized to the same extent as similar characters like Mariah, Bushmaster, Fisk, and Dex where the story spends a significant amount of time dedicated to making the audience empathize with them.

Which is sad, because the necessary parts of her story were available to make that happen. Elektra was a child soldier raised by an emotionally abusive old man and she grows into someone who isn't good at genuinely connecting. However, through her affection for Matt she does ultimately put him first. It was the blueprint for a redemption arc. The writers for whatever reason decided never to frame her with the same care afforded to the series other antagonists, which did a huge disservice to a great character.

Of course, a lot of Elektra's potential probably could've been explored had Daredevil season 2 been a bit more standalone. Parts of it were excellent, collectively, but 75% of the season was more or less Defenders set-up. Even Season 3, which follows The Defenders for Christ's sake, is able to mostly stand on its own as a self-contained story. Outside of the Punisher arc, I really don't get that self-contained feeling with Daredevil season 2.

Edited by dmcreif on Nov 27th 2019 at 12:20:32 PM

Nando v Movies has decided to make a whole series on this crossover, why it didn't work, and how to fix it, a video per episode. Haven't sat through all of it but I guess it's there if you're interested.

They could use Mr.Fear in place of Mysterio if they ever adapted that story.

Edited by Cortez on Feb 14th 2022 at 6:06:41 AM

Marvel/Disney are going further in their quest to bring back all the M Arvel properties udner their creative and legal control, seizing the moment that old streaming right agreements run out to claw back the shows that were made when they needed/Wanted to partner with outside distributors.

All the defenders' series will cease to exist on Netflix at the end of the month:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2022/02/13/netflix-warning-says-its-removing-daredevil-punisher-and-all-its-other-marvel-shows/?sh=40faeb993f42

Also seems to apply to Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.:

https://screenrant.com/marvel-agents-shield-show-netflix-removed-leaving/

Lots of speculation what will happen next. Will those shows be 'upgraded' to canon and appear on Disney+ (or Hulu)? Maybe they will also pick and choose stuff they like and make sure that the rest will not be broadcast anymore, which is also aprt of the speculation for example for Iron Fist.

That seems incredibly unlikely. Because Iron Fist actually does have its fans.

That it had fans doesn't make the possibility of Disney ignoring it unlikely.

From what I heard, the series where speculation about changes/retcons are relatively high are:

The Punisher - Because it very much doesn't fit on Disney+ and the general tone of the MCU. They may not want kids that love Cap and Iron man to stumble into this.

Iron Fist - Besides the critiques it received, the speculation here mostly centers on whitewashing and how they want to handle the chinese audience (compare the approach they took with Shang-Chi).

Agents of SHIELD - Firstly because they used Ao S to build up the Inhumans as Captain Ersatz for the X-Men, which was also supposed to become a movie thing. Then they reaquired the rights for the X-Men franchise and all of that went out of the window. So they may want to clean this out to make more creative space.

Secondly because that series canon is so extensive/close to the main storyline that its hard to re-integrate into the wider MCU without introducing this weird bunch of inconsistencies about them not appearing in previous iterations of things like IW.

Has Disney+ ever outright scrubbed anything due to bad reception? The only work I know of they deliberately went out of their way to NOT release there was Song of the South, due to its reputation as slavery apologia.

From *where*?

Assuming you mean "whitewashing" as in changing non-white characters to be white in an adaptation, there is zero whitewashing in Iron Fist.

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Feb 14th 2022 at 7:49:15 AM

It's really weird how that keeps being brought up. "Whitewashing", even though nobody who actually has a problem with Iron Fist has ever called it whitewashing.

It only seems to be brought up by people who just seem to make a bizarre conflation rather then the people making the arguments.

From i remember the issue people had was that they felt that Danny was an example of Mighty Whitey and that's something that has been brought up about the character even before the show.

And that was the reason people were hoping they would cast an Asian American actor to play Iron Fist when the show was first announced.

Edited by Cortez on Feb 14th 2022 at 3:38:09 PM

It being tied into the absolute clusterfuck of racism behind the scenes didn't help.

I'm aware of those concerns, but "whitewashing" implies the character was changed to be white, rather than just being adapted as-is. That's an important distinction, I feel.

That's for sure. I like Finn Jones as Danny Rand and even would prefer he reprise the role, but I hope Jeph Loeb never gets to touch the MCU ever again. Peter Shinkoda and Wai Ching Ho deserved better.

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Feb 14th 2022 at 8:19:41 AM