The New New Touhou Character Alternate Interpretation Compendium

Also, beyond including a decent remix, Meiling's stage theme seems to be the unofficial main theme of the Devil of Decline fangame. Not sure why, though I guess it is a decent song. Is Meiling the main character?

I think Meiling's character is pretty well-established, so here's some thoughts on relationships and how Meiling fits into the Scarlet Devil Mansion.

Remilia - She's the boss, obviously. For one reason or the other, Meiling has decided to loyally serve her as a guard, which is more than a matter of simple security. Meiling can serve as the face of the mansion, not just because she's the first person visitors see, but because she's both the most affable and the least threatening, to the extent that many people aren't aware she's even a youkai. Also, no one else is available: a vampire noblelady can't mingle with the riffraff, Sakuya is too cold and too busy, and Patchouli is absorbed in her books.

Sakuya - Red oni, blue oni. Meiling is the gatekeeper/groundskeeper with the warm demeanor who sometimes gets her hands dirty, Sakuya mostly stays indoors and gets her knives dirty. Now aside from the inherent "opposites attract" potential, I think Remilia specifically sought out these qualities when hiring those two, so she could properly Kirk it up. See, Patchouli's a decent court mage but not the best advisor when it comes to non-arcane matters. With Meiling and Sakuya, Remilia can hear suggestions from a defensively-minded people-person and cold-blooded, ruthless pragmatism, respectively. Remilia herself can be both aloof and aggressive, so keeping both Meiling and Sakuya around lets her make more balanced decisions.

As for the Meiling/Sakuya ship, all I'll say is that they've both braided their hair the same way.

Patchouli - Really odd couple, here. Outgoing outdoorsy type who stays in fighting shape, and the asthmatic bibliophile shut-in. I'm sure Meiling respects Patchouli's magical power like she respects any strength, but my hunch is that on the occasions they interact, Meiling's always trying to get the magician to take better care of herself. And I'm not just saying that because of one of Karaagetarou's doujins.

Flandre - I think this works because Meiling's an "outsider" in a way. Remilia has to play the role of older sibling and head of household, Sakuya's job is to keep everything inside the mansion under control, and Patchouli is usually doing her own thing. In Meiling, Flandre has someone she can look up to without viewing her as an oppressive authority figure, someone she can vicariously live through when Meiling relates what and who she saw in front of the mansion that day, or tells tales of her homeland. So if Remilia is the Victorian mother figure, Sakuya the head butler(/maid), and Patchouli the occasional tutor, Meiling is just a common footwoman more on Flan's level.

Hmm, this was more rambling than I intended it to be.

edited 25th May '15 7:40:21 PM by Tacitus

I can totally see Remi and Meiling getting together and doing some good old pranks around the SDM. And Sakuya scolding them both for their shenanigans. After all, it's Patchouli's job to stir up trouble! Whatever that means.

As the master of all martial arts, Meiling can sense the chi that flows in all living beings. And inanimate objects too, if you conform to such things having a soul. That's why she's a good bodyguard. She can sense anyone coming to the SDM, even if she's taking a little nap!

...Not that it stops Gensokyo's finest from eluding her most of the time...

Speaking of naps, why does Meiling get flanderized into lazy bum who barely defeat a mook?

She is, if you ascribe to the theory that stage appearances correspond to power levels, the weakest member of the SDM, her siestas are canon, and if she's a Chinese home defense product she must be rubbish at it, right?

While bumbling comic relief Meiling can be amusing (see Life of Maid), I'd rather leave her with her dignity, let her be good at her job 99% of the time. She can still be funny when confronted with something wholly out of her depth, like when Patchy and Remi troll her with crop circles.

That is good but still Meiling is a gatekeeper, they wouldn't hire anyone who was that weak to protect the mansion.

edited 27th May '15 9:59:52 AM by GAP

Well, it wouldn't be flanderization if it wasn't an annoying departure from canon.

Since it's been over a week since the Meiling discussion started, why don't we open up the review period as well? See if recent developments in either games or supplementary materials have put characters we've already discussed in a new light, and of course anyone late to the thread has their chance to say their piece. So feel free talk about anyone already listed on the first page, first post of the thread.

Meiling remains a valid topic of discussion, by the way.

I feel the fact that no one has made an overall positive alternate character interpretation of Reimu is troubling.

Besides one, (and I repeat, one of those) I have nothing really to offer.

I have nothing much to say about Reimu's character - she's basically just what she looks like. But there are a couple of interesting things about her shrine and her nature.

We have Kasen's word that the god of the Hakurei shrine has the blessing of youkai extermination, and from there it seems an obvious jump to suggest that her unusual determination when solving incidents is actually a result of divine inspiration.

Yukari is often called a youkai's youkai because she's so very youkai-like, but the one who actually fills the role of youkai to the youkai is Reimu. If they know about her at all, then they know she's the one who'll come down on them like a ton of bricks when they cross the line. We know from the Moriyas that youkai faith can serve to sustain gods, so does youkai fear have a similar effect to human fear? Perhaps if Reimu got killed she'd wake up the next morning as a nearly-identical youkai with a specialised purpose.

Added some spacing as it was running on too much.

edited 28th May '15 3:01:39 AM by WodashGSJ

Someone once posited a thing about Reimu as the kind of person smart enough to coast through school all the way until they get up to college.

And suddenly, they're not doing as good as they expect but they don't know how to fix it because they never learned to study.

Reimu is sort of like that. Thats why her get rich quick schemes. She's used to life handing her everything on a platter. She legitimately does not know how to exert the effort to earn things. That's why her life. She's good enough to coast through life. Too good to do worse than that, too good to know how to better her situation. Marisa could give her pointers but Reimu doesn't know to ask for them and Marisa would rather trick Reimu into thinking she allowed the reign of lucifer.

She's still a prick for how she treated Book Jesus - hallowed be her pinions - though.

Oh and uh, for killing a lesser god. I guess.

edited 28th May '15 8:50:00 AM by Bocaj

Shit we are already done with Meiling?

Uh, uh, she sure guards that gate?

Her PMiSS art is surprisingly badass for such a minor character?

I got nothing. Meiling is one of those characters who everyone has already said everything about, at least twice.

Review, who we reviewing, Reimu?

Reimu smells. She's probably the least interesting of the "main cast" and is best used when she is a foil to someone else, whether it be Marisa, Kasen, Kosuzu, Sanae, etc. On her own, she's just...this lazy opportunistic grump who shoots first and asks questions later.

I guess she gets points for just how many different characters she can play off of, and OK, seeing her be an opportunistic grump is pretty funny sometimes.

edited 28th May '15 10:26:48 AM by Otherarrow

I actually really like Meiling. Despite the fan portrayal she seems really reliable and mature. She's like the ultimate nee-san.

Big sis of the Scarlet Devil Mansion?

I can see it.

Body temperature questions aside, she's probably the only known denizen of the Mansion that can be described as "warm."

"But there is one they fear..." This is really appealing to me for whatever reason, the notion that Reimu is a sort of counterbalance to the hordes of youkai, a natural apex predator that keeps them from completely dominating. Could provide an alternate explanation for her powers - Reimu's inherited youkai-busting in a similar manner Mystia has a good singing voice and Aya is speedy.

Although I'd disagree with your last point, since I think it's more narratively satisfying for this youkaikiin to be a human rather than youkai.

True, but let's also give her some credit - Reimu's been through a lot, nearly twenty games now of battles against youkai. She's too lazy to prepare for them, but I think she's learned from them as well. So I'd argue that she gets by on her natural ability and a good deal of hard-won experience. Reimu doesn't look to the future, but can learn from the past.

We're done with her official conversation, but she's a perfectly valid topic for this review period.

Whoever you wanna talk about.

A lot of people here don't like Reimu for one reason or another.

Reimu has good taste in style. Like, Reimu has some neat threads.

edited 28th May '15 11:29:27 PM by Otherarrow

Reimu seems to be despised in this forums and for a variety of reasons.

Meiling is is competent even if she isn't portrayed as such.

Reimu is a funny jerk. I like her.

I can understand people not liking her, but I have my own opinions on her character. i suppose those can wait, though.

I really enjoy the fun jerk portrayal, and regret that my perception for Reimu and the setting as a whole was so warped early on.

What was your early perception like?

Well, my early interpretations of the characters were almost entirely determined by their themes, both remixed and original. And most of the fanart I saw in those early days was from Hylarn's picdumps, which tended to the more dignified and pretty (or macabre) interpretations of the characters. Jerks can, of course, be dignified and pretty! But when you're meeting a character through the art, it's not the impression that they give, you know?

I ended up with a mental image of Gensokyo that is at once softer-edged and more serious, even after playing one or two of the games. The Reimu I got is dispassionate but also gentle (when there isn't an incident on), and even Reimu herself isn't sure if it's gentleness born of kindness or simply not giving a damn. This interpretation might have pushed for the spellcard system because she wasn't a fan of flying around massacring youkai, and had given serious thought to how weaker humans might defend themselves when she's not around.

I'm still using that interpretation in fanfiction, but if I were to start the series over again or do something entirely new with Gensokyo, I'd probably go with something else.

edited 29th May '15 4:59:58 AM by Durazno

Sounds good to me, for what it's worth. I mean, Reimu probably isn't the introspective type (though what else does she do all day?), but if she were, I can see her coming up with the spell card system as a way to reconcile her job as youkai exterminator and her desire to not (permanently) hurt anybody.

As for your comment about fanart, maybe I need to take more care to present a variety of takes on a character during my picdumps. My main criteria when selecting pics has been my sense of aesthetics, not different and balanced portrayals of her.

Well, you can wait for the New New New Touhou Character Alternative Interpretation Compendium if you really want to, but I'm not exaggerating when I say it will probably be years before we get to Reimu again. So why not share your thoughts now, regardless of whether they conform to what others think of her?

That's good to hear, honestly.

If you want to try and balance portrayals, you probably only need one or two examples of a take on the character, right? Like if your Flan picdump is full of intricate pretty wings and soulful red eyes, you really only need to add a few ferocious smirks and blood-spatters to convey "this is also an interpretation people have." Like, don't agonize over it.

And I agree - let's hear it, GM_3826!

Thoughts and ideas, be unleashed!

Thanks to ULiL, one of Byakuren's hidden talents is riding a motorcycle. Kinda impressed that she even knows what a motorcycle is. Wonder if she has a license.

Nihihihi. The Hijiri Messiahs, a biker gang that happens to be the most law-abiding gang in the modern era. The gang is notoriously known to resolve potential incidents between other gangs around the world. Yes, the members have a knack for telling when things are going to inconvenience the normal populace.

WaHH revealed that there's more to Kogasa's youkai heritage. She's a blacksmith. Her ability to surprise truly is astonishing.

And she's proud of being one and in her skills as a blacksmith. Repairs, new weaponry, forging? You name it, she'll do it, and it's Kogasa-guaranteed to be epic.

I bet she can also make rainbow-colored weapons because she can. And one of her Spellcard themes is rainbows. RAINBOW SMITH!!

Yumemi and Chiyuri, traveling to different dimensions since Dim Dream. Speaking of dream, with their capabilities, they can travel to the dream world for a new kind of research. Wonder if Doremy would be accommodating. Or would she just kill them by speaking of their most embarrassing fantasies. ...Perhaps they're not ready to undertake such a venture, after all.

edited 3rd Jun '15 5:52:35 PM by Diamite

...I've been suffering from writer's block lately. I don't know how exactly to put my opinion into words.