Unclear Description: Adult Fear get usage counts

Total posts: [91]
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We seem to have two tropes at play here given how the description says the trope is about real world fears any adult could have and how most examples are about kids being in the line of danger which the trope isn't exclusively about though it and the page image suggest that's what it means. Some good examples which have nothing to do with kids at all are kinda lost within the majority of "kid is in peril" examples which suggests most tropers think the trope is about that specific fear and that one only therefore broken.

I'm asking for a split into two separate tropes regarding kid examples and non-kid examples or a rename into Parental Fear or similar.

edited 16th Sep '13 8:06:59 AM by treelo

2 Larkmarn16th Sep 2013 08:08:15 AM , Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
There also has been discussion about whether or not supernatural examples would count.

With the current description, the idea of things like a monster preying on children wouldn't count, because of the fantastic elements. That said, even relatively mundane situations were up for debate because they were in a supernatural setting (the example here being from Soul Eater, a child was kidnapped by an evil witch. From the parent's POV, it's plain Adult Fear since she just up and disappeared, but the audience knows the supernatural was involved).

A separate Parental Fear trope might be good for supernatural examples where someone is worried about their kids, though I wonder if the overlap with Papa Wolf and Mama Bear might be an issue.

edited 16th Sep '13 8:09:29 AM by Larkmarn

3 SeptimusHeap16th Sep 2013 08:11:41 AM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
Papa Wolf/Mama Bear is more like the protective response.

While I think that a split would be a good idea from a troping standpoint, I worry about the manpower required.
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
I approve of the split, and don't mind doing the work. But Adult Fear needs to be turned into a disambiguation and names for "worried about what's happened to your kid/geriatric-parent" and "worried about things adults have to worry about" need to be picked.
5 SeptimusHeap16th Sep 2013 08:36:09 AM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
Is there a reason why we can't keep Adult Fear?
6 theAdeptrogue16th Sep 2013 08:40:40 AM , Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
iRidescence
Isn't this trope an Audience Reaction? I've always thought it was about a scene that invokes worry/panic among the adult audience, because it deals with issues that usually concerns them.
7 SeptimusHeap16th Sep 2013 08:42:57 AM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
The Audience Reaction is Nightmare Fuel. The examples don't look very audience-y to me.
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
[up][up][up] Merely if we decide the trope needs repair. A rename isn't required, and the split would make the primary useage of the trope not what the inbounds are looking for.

edited 16th Sep '13 8:48:04 AM by crazysamaritan

9 theAdeptrogue16th Sep 2013 08:56:57 AM , Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
iRidescence
[up][up]Really? The description states that it's about using realistic/mundane threats to play up the fear and shock in adult audiences. So wouldn't it be something subjective?
10 SeptimusHeap16th Sep 2013 08:58:30 AM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
That by itself doesn't make it subjective. Now, if it relied on the response of the audience then it would be subjective.
[up][up][up] I'm sure it does need a rename given the general sentiment is that the only adult fear is one relating to children which isn't the trope's intent.
12 nrjxll17th Sep 2013 12:46:21 AM , Relationship Status: Not war
using realistic/mundane threats to play up the fear and shock in adult audiences

To heck with the subjectivity debate, I'm not even convinced this is a trope.
13 SeptimusHeap17th Sep 2013 12:47:34 AM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
Huh? How is that not a trope?
14 nrjxll17th Sep 2013 12:53:58 AM , Relationship Status: Not war
The Parental Fear version is legit, but beyond that I've never really come across any reason to think the above-quoted "trope" is an actual recurring pattern in fiction. There are examples on the page, sure, but they mostly read like audience reactions and really seem like misplaced Nightmare Fuel entries.

To put it another way, I kind of want to see some evidence that this is actually a thing that happens and not just some tropers lumping their particular views on fear into a page.

edited 17th Sep '13 1:00:27 AM by nrjxll

15 theAdeptrogue17th Sep 2013 01:17:16 AM , Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
iRidescence
[up]That was what I was saying, actually. The trope looks like it's about Nightmare Fuel, but more specifically intended for adult audiences due to the context of the issue presented.

edited 17th Sep '13 1:18:09 AM by theAdeptrogue

16 SeptimusHeap17th Sep 2013 01:24:46 AM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
Nightmare Fuel is an Audience Reaction. It has nothing to do with things meant to be scary for anyone.

That said, I agree with the idea that Parental Fear is a trope and Adult Fear of somewhat questionable tropability. The concept of adult-specific "fear" that flies over kids may be a trope as well.
This trope reads like what Parental Fear should be but I don't know if it means that there shouldn't be an Adult Fear trope too, the sort of fear that kids generally will not understand seems to be the intention of this trope specifically but got crowded out. It's the lack of acknowledging there's more subjects of fear for adults than the typical parent based one which might be a sticking point.

edited 17th Sep '13 2:27:14 AM by treelo

Could we just... not have Death anymore?
@11- a rename without redefinition would not change that.
It wouldn't, we need to at least get some idea of what it is before we can go about splitting or renaming.
20 NativeJovian21st Sep 2013 05:44:17 PM from Orlando, Florida
Io vs Jupiter
Adult Fear is about "mundane" fears that people can actually apply to their lives — it's hard to get worked up about the possibility of alien invasion or demonic possession, but losing everything to financial downturn, being helpless while family members die of disease or injury, or having a loved one betray you are all real things that happen to real people in real life.

If we split it, what would the two split tropes be?
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
The proposed split that I've seen is
  • Parental Fear: Fear that your child (or senile relative) will be injured/die.
  • (The rest of this trope, as you wrote it)

The reason for the proposed split is that the examples are almost exclusively of the Parental Fear nature. I strongly suggest that Adult Fear be turned into a redirect for Parental Fear, because the inbounds are almost certainly for the Parental Fear subtrope.

This trope has apparently seen Missing Supertrope Syndrome in reverse. The one subtrope has eaten up space preventing the accumulation of examples for the supertrope.
22 NativeJovian21st Sep 2013 07:04:17 PM from Orlando, Florida
Io vs Jupiter
The "Parental Fear" trope already exists as Outliving One's Offspring.
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
No, that's the trope for after they die. Parental Fear is the worrying before that trope.
24 Larkmarn21st Sep 2013 07:57:46 PM , Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
... is Parental Fear really a trope? I mean, people don't want to lose their loved ones. That's just sort of... how the universe works.
25 SeptimusHeap22nd Sep 2013 01:40:54 AM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
I don't think that actually matters in either direction when talking about tropewortiness.

Rather, I'd ask what would go under such a trope. "Something bad happens to a child" or "Parents worry about what could happen to their children".

Page Action: Adult Fear
19th Oct '13 1:57:33 PM
What would be the best way to fix the page?
At issue:

Total posts: 91
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