TF2 MvM RP, interest check and rules finalizing

Disclaimer 1: This is not a signup thread, and will not become a signup thread. There will be what looks like a character sheet to fill out like a signup thread below, but that is for an example. This is an interest check and rules finalizing thread. The main purpose of this thread is to let players interested in joining this future RP a chance to have an input on the rules that will be going into it. (After all, it won't do if nobody wants to join because the rules are terrible.) You may also brainstorm character ideas, but that's not the primary purpose here. When I'm actually ready to begin starting the RP, a new thread will be made for signups.

Disclaimer 2: As with the rules of TV Tropes RP forums, I am mentioning now that three specific players will not be welcome in this RP, no matter what. Yes, this disclaimer would be better put in the actual signup thread, and it will be, but I'm putting it out there ahead of time anyway. These three players should know who they are just by looking at my screen name and knowing my personal history with them. (Hint, if you have to ask if it's you, it's probably not you. Unless you're one of the three and you're trolling.)

Much as I dislike starting a thread with disclaimers, I felt those both necessary. On to the business at hand. As mentioned in the the RP forum guide thread here, I am interested in running another RP at some point in the future. Since feedback in that thread was heavily in favor of the TF2 RP, here we are.

Obviously, as from the title, this RP will be based on TF2, particularly the Mann versus Machine elements of TF2. The game will start with players on both RED and BLU, initially fighting each other until the common and greater threat of the Machines forces them to work together. There's going to be more to it than that, but I can't just spoil the whole plot here, can I?

There's some questions I'm sure would be asked, so I'll answer them ahead of time:

Is this going to be an OC RP, or will we make characters straight from the game? This is going to be an OC RP. You will be making your own characters, under a set of guidelines based on what class you pick. (Most of which just have to do with your equipment.)

Do we have to play as one of the nine classes from the game? Yes. "Tenth" or custom classes will not be allowed.

Do we have to pick equipment straight from the game? No. You can take any items from the game or from other sources so long as they still fit within your class's guidelines. (Which means no miniguns on Scouts or sniper rifles on Spies.)

Do we get alternate loadouts? When you enter the game, you'll only have what's on your character's signup sheet, but I will have chances to find/loot/steal/buy new gear.

Will you only be allowing in nine players, and no duplicate classes? Hell no. That's a recipe for the RP dying prematurely in more ways than one. However, characters of certain classes may be denied if we already have too many of that class. (To avoid the nightmarish scenario of 6 snipers on a team of 9 people.)

Will we actually be doing objective stuff like in the game? Point capping, intelligence capturing, and bomb pushing? Occasionally, but not always.

Will there be respawning, like in the game? Yes, but not always conveniently. Respawning will be an element, but for certain parts of the RP it won't be a reliable option. (As in, "you'll respawn, but the nearest spawn point is two miles away from here.") So there will be sections where caution will be the better part of valor.

When will this RP actually be starting? Can't say yet, because I need to reach a point where I'm comfortable with my ratio of how much free time I have versus how many RPs I'm in. It could be next week, or next year.

Most of the rules in this RP will be centered around character creation, while the actual RP itself will be more or less standard free form. This is the section that I want the most feedback on, to get an idea of what you guys want to see. So here's some of the things I'm doing or considering.

• I'm planning on there being friendly fire by default, so no spy-checking like you would in game. I'm open to maybe changing this though. Something reminded to me by a certain Spicy waffle is the possibility of friendly fire doing reduced damage, but still doing damage. This one will largely depend on player input for a final decision.

• I will probably be changing the effects/balance of some items from the default game, for two main reasons. The first being that their rules as-is would either not work well or clash horribly with a free-form rule set. The second is some items with abilities that I'm considering removing (the abilities, not the items entirely) because they start to encroach on the special attributes of other classes, and I want the classes to keep their specializations separate. For example, any non-Pyro item that sets people on fire, except huntsman since that relies on Pyro support. Or the paintrain's double cap/pushing speed because it kind of makes Scouts an all out worse option in this context. Or any item that gives you straight up health regen on non-Medics. The only item I know for sure I'm changing is the dead ringer.
  • Oh, and on that note, I'm pretty sure I'll change it so the Engineer buildings that you can build are based on PDA choice, not based on your other equipment. (So you could take gunslinger and still have full-sized sentries, or not take gunslinger but have mini-sentries anyway.)

• There are certain types of items I'm considering allowing any class to take, because it seems kind of arbitrary that they be limited to just one or a select couple of classes, at least in a freeform context. These are: Any kind of melee-supplementing item not being limited to only Demoman; (the shields and footwear) health based weapons not to just Soldier; (equalizer and escape plan) throwables not to just Scout and Sniper; (milk and jarate) and consumable items not to just Heavy and Scout. (foods and sodas)

• Speaking of consumables and throwables, I'm thinking I won't have them regenerate by default in this RP. They could be refilled by just going to any resupply station or getting an appropriate pickup, but they won't just regenerate. This mainly being because I won't have posts be a set amount of time, and nor do I want to use "you must wait X turns before reusing the item" kind of rules. But I'm not entirely certain on this one. This is also so as to not pull too much attention away from the Medic class, by making their ability to heal and buff teammates not as redundant.

• I'm heavily considering a rule based on a ratio between character speed and general character toughness/health. The reason for this is because I don't want you guys making carbon copies of the TF2 characters, so I had to reason about things like, "what if someone wants to make a tough, slow Engineer, or a fast, scrawny Sniper?" The rule as I have it now is a simple three-step dial of "fast", "medium", or "slow", with the slower you are, the tougher you are, and the reverse likewise being true. If I use this rule, the classes will default as follows: Scouts are fast, Heavies are slow, and every other class is medium. Every character could either be their default speed or one step slower/faster, without going past the limits. (So Scouts could be fast or medium, but not slow. Heavies could be slow or medium, but not fast. Every other class could be any speed.)

• After a little brainstorming, I've come up with an idea for random crits that I think I kinda like, but as with everything else, it couldn't hurt to get player input. Obvously, certain weapons and items will get crits/mini-crits, or cause crits/mini-crits to happen in certain circumstances guaranteed, but those aren't random; as well as weapons that can't get random crits (or crits at all) as a downside. The way I see it, there's three possible ways for me to do random crits in this RP:Note
  With the rules that include the chance for random crits, I will not change whether or not the attacks actually hit their intended target; just whether or not they crit.
  • A) For every (applicable) attack in game, I will make an off-screen roll to determine if it randomly crits, at a set chance of it critting. (Probably 1 out of 10?) Fully automatic attacks will get a roll for every 10 actual shots or so, and will appropriately get a whole small burst of crits in a row if it does. (Also keep in mind I'll be doing this for enemies too.) This is my least favorite of the three options.
  • B) Simply not have random crits at all. This is my second favorite of the three options, because it's at least easy to manage.
  • C) Exactly like A, except that the chance of random crits happening changes depending on what area the fighting is happening in, with some having the chance relatively high while others have it off entirely. (Something about the levels of idle energy in the air or whatever, I don't know/care.) I like this one the most because, even though it'll be the most complicated to run, it'll also be the most interesting, and may force a change of tactics to compensate for higher/lower chances of crits at different stages of the RP.

And here's what the current rules for each class seletion would look like based on the rules I'm currently planning on using: (So this is also subject to feedback.)

Scout: Is fast by default. Has double jumping and double capping/pushing speed by default. Can only take light weapons. Cannot take slow speed.
Soldier: Is medium by default. Is the only class that can take rocket launchers.
Pyro: Is medium by default. Is the only class that can take fire-based weapons. Is naturally resistant to fire.
Demoman: Is medium by default. Is the only class that can take arc-based raw explosives. Is the only class that can take explosive traps.
Heavy: Is slow by default. Is the only class that can take heavy (as in the weight) weapons. Cannot take fast speed.
Engineer: Is medium by default. Carries "metal" in addition to other stats. Is the only class that can build things. Uses "metal" to build up to three buildings based on PDA choice. (teleporters count as one choice) Can obtain "metal" from dropped weapons and ammo. Can remove sappers from buildings by default.
Medic: Is medium by default. Regenerates health by default. Is the only class that can take healing items that do not require refill or recharge. (Like throwable lunch items.) Is the only class that can buff itself and another character simultaneously. Must take at least one item that can heal other characters.
Sniper: Is medium by default. Is the only class that can take scoped weapons. A Sniper's primary slot weapon will, by default, automatically crit on a head shot.
Spy: Is medium by default. Is the only class that can take a cloaking device. Is the only class that can disguise. Is the only class that can take sapper items. Must take a cloaking device in secondary slot. A Spy's melee weapon will, by default, automatically crit when attacking an enemy from behind.

So as mentioned, this is not an actual signup sheet. This is what the signup sheet would look like if I went with my current idea of what I want for the rules; this sheet format is to be possibly changed as I get feedback and an idea of what you guys do and don't want.

Regarding what your character can and can't be: Just about anything, really; this RP, like TF2, will not care much about staying very serious or consistent. The only thing to keep in mind is that no matter what you make your character, they will work by the same mechanics as everyone else, with no explanation as to why whatsoever. A robot? Sure, but you'll still be healed by health packs and heal beams instead of an Engineer swing. A ghost? You can't walk through terrain or ignore attacks, and still have to respawn when 'killed', but yeah.

I suppose the only really important thing you could change is your character's relative size and height. (Though no matter what you pick, your character's health and movement speed will still match your speed choice.) Being smaller means you can fit in tighter spaces, while being taller means you can look over certain things and reach higher shelves, but also makes you a bigger target. I'll just say, nothing smaller than a 10 year old child, or bigger than Andre the Giant.

• Name: Doesn't have to be your character's real name; it just has to be what everyone else calls them.
• Age & gender: These should be fairly straight forward, and I'm putting them on the same line to save on vertical post space.
• Starting team: Red or Blu, which do you work for?
• Appearance: What does your character look like? Either picture or description, or both.
• Class & speed: One of the nine TF2 classes, then fast, medium, or slow. This chooses what equipment and special abilities you have access to, as well as generally how fast your character moves, and how tough they are.
  • Primary slot: What do they pull out when you hit #1 on the keyboard? This does not need to be an item from TF2, or even a weapon, so long as it's something your class is allowed to take. However, you must describe any special bonuses and negatives it may add. (Optional: Describe the taunt.)
  • Secondary slot: Pretty much ditto from the primary slot, however in general the secondary slot should act as a backup weapon or supportive item to either the primary weapon or the melee weapon, depending on if your character is melee focused. If you're a Spy, this slot must have a cloaking device, though as with everything else, you may come up with your own instead of choosing from the game. (Optional: Again, describe dat taunt.)
  • Melee slot: This is what your character uses to get up close and personal. Once again, it may be something from outside of TF2, but you must once again specify any positives or negatives the weapon carries, or special rules. (Optional: And if you hit the taunt button, it does..?)
  • (Engineer only)PDA slot: In other words, choose what your three buildings are going to be. (Again, teleporter entrance and exit count as one choice for both.) And again, custom options are acceptable.
  • (Spy only)Sapper slot: When you need to sabotage some Engineer buildings or some robots, how do you do it? You should know by this far down the sheet that custom options are totally cool so long as they be balanced, yo.
• Personality: How does your character generally behave and feel about their occupation? Of course, this doesn't need to be how they act all the time, but what you write here is supposed to give everyone else a general idea of what to expect.
• Back story: Okay, only two things are actually required in this section. The first is why Red or Blu considers your character qualified for their position. (Yes, it may be a joke/error.) The second is how long your character has been working for them. It does not need to include how they were hired, or anything about their life before working for Red or Blu. However, if you want to add those, you may feel free.
• (Optional)Other: Anything else that didn't fit into an above category you feel is worth mentioning.

edited 19th Sep '13 4:21:59 PM by FirockFinion

Might do Pyro...Yes. I kind of have a fetish for masked psychopaths.

[internal screeching]

The only thing I can really comment on right now is the friendly-fire part—the only reason why I'd think of not removing it would be if you were aiming for a certain tone for the RP, most likely a Lighter and Softer kind and where's the fun in that with TF2?. Otherwise, I don't mind that particular change.

It could set up some good jokes.

@Troy:

So in other words, the Pyro probably wouldn't be accepted as a character. And characters who take the Pyro class don't necessarily have to be gas-mask wearing psychopaths. (And characters with classes besides Pyro could be gas-mask wearing psychopaths.)

Though thanks for reminding me about something I need to change on the Pyro note.

@Naomi: Oh, I want this to be a very Lighter and Softer kind of deal, because TF2 first and foremost doesn't take itself seriously as it is.

But that said, I do kind of want there to be consequences to doing really stupid things, and normally friendly fire is one of those things.

edited 8th Sep '13 1:34:13 AM by FirockFinion

And we are only allowed to use the weaponry from the Game, correct? I know this is a stupid question.

@Troy:

A section of my first post up there is basically a preemptive FAQ. It would be nice if you checked if your question is up there first.

Oh, I'm being an idiot right now.

Little bit, yeah.

But it's okay. I'm the one who'd really be an idiot if I had expected everyone to fully read the first post before asking questions.

(Still waiting for someone to seriously try making a signup, without realizing that's not what this thread is for.)

Though that said, I'd welcome anyone making their own example of a signup, to point out errors or exploits I may have missed in my rules.

edited 8th Sep '13 1:49:52 AM by FirockFinion

I actually am making a Sign Up now, though how would are characters end up on the teams? Approached by one of the Brothers?

edited 8th Sep '13 1:57:16 AM by TroyandHawk

Well, okay, but all I could do is say whether or not I'd accept it. I couldn't actually accept or deny it here, because this isn't a sign up thread. (See disclaimer 1 at the very top of the first post.)

Plus by the time I actually make the sign ups, the rules and/or sheet format may have changed, so even just copy-pasting it from here might not work.

how would are characters end up on the teams? Approached by one of the Brothers?

That's what the back story part will be for explaining in the actual sign up thread. (In which I'll put a basic description of what's required in each category, like I did with the BHoTA sign up sheet.) The specifics of how will be up to the players, and given the nature of the setting I'll probably accept most explanations.

edited 8th Sep '13 1:56:39 AM by FirockFinion

Alright...Yeah, i confess I more skimmed over the first post then anything else.

I figured as much.

So, out of curiosity, are our OCs the next mercenaries after the ones in the game?

Well, that's kind of one of the plot elements that I'm still working on actually.

First off, this RP won't be following TF2's canon exactly. (Which should already be obvious based on the fact that it'll be an OC RP.) That would be both impossible, and I want to do some things that aren't in TF2 canon. Plus TF2's canon is kind of a mess because it doesn't take itself seriously at all, or even attempt to explain how certain game mechanics work. (Like for example, the comics have one possible explanation for how respawning works, but only apply it to two non-player characters. Plus they seem to do it in a context where respawning from most in-game injuries just wouldn't work.) In the spirit of the game though, I won't bother explaining how those kinds of things work either.

Right now I have to decide between two possibilities. The first is that in this RP's version of things, the game's nine mercenaries simply don't exist or were never hired by RED or BLU. That, or your OCs are just "alternates" to the main nine, since nine guys can only be in nine battlefields at once. (To my knowledge, TF2 canon does not explain duplicate classes, or why both teams have the same nine guys. Just in case you were wondering.)

Timeline wise though, the RP will be the same as the Mann versus Machine "canon" stuff. The RP will even start at 2fort Tuefort.

edited 8th Sep '13 2:21:49 AM by FirockFinion

I would like to ask the most important question: How many hats can we start with?

Well that depends.

How many could you fit before you couldn't get them through a low doorway? Or what workaround would you use for low doorways?

You really didn't have to tell us that.

And without friendly fire, we wouldn't have that great moment at the end of Meet the Spy.

Speaking of Meet the Spy, can we write our backstories like a "Meet the" video?

And the most important question of all time, nay, of all existence, a question that will change the world forever... WILL IT HAVE CRATES.

That is true. And the fact that there will be respawning anyway makes me even more inclined to just keep in friendly fire.

In the actual sign ups, the only thing required from the back story is some explanation as to why your character is even working for RED or BLU. (Even if it's literally a joke.) So yes, it could be like a "meet the" video I suppose.

And yes, it will have crates as map doodads and terrain.

JUST POSTING TO SAY I ACKNOWLEDGE THE THREAD

So does this mean no Unusuals exist? What kind of hell is this universe?! XD

(Seriously, though, just have my TF2 love explode tenfold with the idea of this RP, why don't you?)

@Strat. I think I used the wrong word.

@Mrminun: No opinion on any of the rules?

Well, why would I need to say anything about the rules? I think they're all fine, and they don't seem to need any special mention. I was just posting to say that my interest has not waned.

I think the rules are fine too, but what is the minimum number of players you want?