What's the public have against Batman?

Over the years, i've noticed that a lot of people in the DC universes have a pretty negative view of Batman, and i have to ask, does he really deserve it?

Let's look at things from his perspective: his parents were killed right in front of his eyes, even if it was a random stranger, witnessing that alone would scar any child his age. If he spoke to a police officer, they'd tell him to let the police handle the criminal, but in some cases, more than twenty years passed since that moment and the killer still wasn't found. Maybe that was enough to make Batman feel that the police weren't always good enough, and you know what they say; if you want something done right, do it yourself. Also, people say that Batman is a lunatic, but when you think about it, if that were true, wouldn't he just kill the crooks he catches or put them in a prison he designed so that he could torture them however he sees fit? But no, he doesn't do any of that, whenever he catches a crook, he gives them to the police and let's them and the legal system decide what to do with them. If anything, Batman's more of a special covert ops kind of guy; his methods might seem unorthodox, but he still follows the most important and relevant of the rules.

And one also has to take into account the matter of the Robins. Take what happened to Dick Grayson for example: like Bruce, his parents were murdered right in front of his eyes. There was no guarantee that he would follow Bruce's same code of ethics, so for all we know, if Bruce hadn't taken Dick under his wing, he would have gone mad because of his grief and become criminal in his own right. As for Tim, near as i can tell, he felt that Batman still needed someone like Robin to keep him from going down the dark path that he's done a remarkable job of keeping away from already.

Also, another thing that bothers me is that other heroes like Superman and Wonder Woman also think rather poorly of Batman. In one episode of Superman TAS, Superman actually said he wouldn't have vigilantism in Metropolis, so explain to me what Superman himself is? True, Superman is more public than Batman, but whenever Supes gets into a fight, buildings and streets get torn apart and craters are made everywhere, and the same could be said for Wonder Woman. However, with Batman, the most you get is a crashed ceiling or a broken window, that's it. So, the public is perfectly okay with a super-strong alien and supernaturally enhanced (both literally and figuratively) Amazon tearing up public property just because they're in the public eye alot and yet they have a problem with a masked covert ops kind of guy who rarely, if ever breaks anything, just because he lurks in the shadows?

Just something i had to get out of the way.

How on Earth is a resident of Gotham who even tries to look at it from Batman's perspective going to figure out he's doing it because his parents were killed in 1918?

Let's look at this from the perspective of a Gotham resident.

Stalking the shadows of the darkest alleys there is a mysterious dark angel. He emerges from the deep darkness and savagely attacks random people, with no rhyme or reason. Some of these people committed crimes in the past, but served their time in prison and were released, having repaid their debt to society. Others have never been convicted of a crime, yet the goddamn Batman brutally beats them just the same. (Oh, and even if they have been convicted but have escaped justice somehow, criminals are still entitled to protection under the law). The police have a name for this behaviour - aggravated assault. You know who's most likely to do this? Career criminals looking to bump off the competition.

Yet nobody knows who the Batman is, or if he is even just one person. The police can't or won't capture him. All they know is that you'd better not walk home through a dark alley lest some maniac in a bat suit jump out and attack you for no reason you know.

IMPORTANT: I am explaining why Gotham residents don't like Batman. If you want to argue why they shouldn't, you must base your answer only on information that is actually available to them, and for Haruhi's sake don't break the fourth wall!

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This touches on something that frustrates me about a lot of superhero fans - the idea that anonymous, unlicensed vigilantism is a good idea. Sure, Batman is frequently an exciting and entertaining story, but what the characters do is not OK.

Yes, in the stories he appears in, Batman can cut through all the red tape and get straight to the mastermind without having to worry about evidence or proof. We can even cheer him for it, because we can see through the fourth wall and we know he's guilty.

But in real life, cops don't have that luxury. All they can go on is evidence left behind. Due process, search warrants, and other red tape all exist for a reason. Every time someone proposes giving cops any extra powers to investigate criminals, politicians and civil servants are drowned under a sea of complaints about privacy and coercion of innocent citizens, and these powers are positively benign and impotent compared to what Batman pulls off every week.

edited 31st Aug '13 3:27:11 PM by VampireBuddha

Ukrainian Red Cross

Two words. Batman Gambit.

edited 31st Aug '13 3:35:18 PM by Imoo57

That's why i mentioned the end results of Batman's job

Would a "Career criminal" really bring other crooks right to the police or at the very least, leave them behind for the police to arrest them? It seems to me that if Batman really was as unstable as people say he is, he wouldn't be so merciful to the crooks he catches.

Also, how are what Superman and Wonder Woman do any better, they both have super strength and can break anything like it was nothing, yet Batman's the one they should be afraid of?

maybe they aren't scared of him so much as just weirded out by him? Dude is legitimately creepy if you don't get to know him.

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins

Superman makes public appearances and talks to folks and answers interviews. The public may not know who Clark Kent is, but they know Superman. He's a public figure.

Also, just because Batman doesn't want to get his hands dirty doesn't mean he's unstable. There's more than one form of crazy. A random private citizen dresses up as a bat to skulk around in the shadows and punch crime? That's pretty crazy.

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

Crazy yet strangely productive.

Metropolis is just jealous that their superhero isn't nearly as METAL! as Gothams.

Batman has to have some variety of in universe fanbase.

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins

Oh,. he does.

The problem is, people who generally support openly the antics of a costumed vigiolante who operats in the darkness tend to not be the most sane of fans

For example, the biggest Batman fanboy of them all◊.

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

ouch. Tobias has got a point there.

All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

I mean normal internet fans.

They got a mention by Brainiac once.

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins

Seriously? What did he say and in what appearance?

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins

Thanks

I wonder if in-universe Batman fans have the same "he could beat Superman with prep time arguments" that we have. And also if they know about the kryptonite ring.

The very best, like no one ever was. Check out my Spider-Man fanfic here! [1]

Is Kryptonite well known in universe?

Theres sex and death and human grime in monochrome for one thin dime and at least the trains all run on time but they dont go anywhere.

Depends on the universe, I suppose.

At least on Batman: The Brave and the Bold (a.k.a. the best version of Batman) those arguments take place.

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.

In Super Café, Batman and Superman themselves have those arguments.

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...they don't just... find out?

The Revolution Will Not Be Tropeable

They have pie on the way.

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins

Hilariously enough, they do. Contains Dark Knight Rises spoilers.

Batman wins.

edited 20th Sep '13 7:54:56 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

Real world vigilantes rarely turn out to be upstanding folks, so I can see why in-universe people would be very skeptical of someone like Batman. You see people alleging that Bernie Goetz wasn't a hero, just a trigger-happy racist looking for an excuse to shoot minorities, and don't even get me started on assholes like George Zimmerman.

I think it's quite understandable that the people of Gotham would be skeptical of anyone taking the law into their own hands because they have no idea what is going on in his head.

edited 21st Sep '13 10:36:20 AM by comicwriter

Yeah but this is Batman he's the cuddliest vigilante you ever did see.

Also he never uses lethal force.

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins

The fact that he doesn't kill people is immaterial. Like I said, there's a precedent for real world vigilantes being thought of as disturbed, violent people. At best they're usually delusional geeks who have watched too many Bruce Lee and Clint Eastwood films, and at worst...again, Lil' Georgie Zimmerman.

If I don't have the reader's knowledge and perspective, how do I know Batman is an upstanding rich guy dedicated to justice? How do I know he's not another Small Name, Big Ego type running around attacking bad guys because it makes him feel like he has a big dick? How do I know he's not just some weird fetishist who gets off on beating people up while wearing a tight leather costume?

Yeah...but what he does isn't much better. Assuming they don't immediately give up/wet their pants the moment they see Batman, these criminals usually end up battered. And regardless of whether or not there's not quite enough evidence to but them away (because having a definitely-not-completely-sane ninja guy in a bat-suit say 'he did it!' doesn't exactly scream credibility), these criminals are likely to end up either broken or more aggressive than when they started.

Also, Dick!Robin is the cuddliest vigilante ever. Full stop. Don't even joke.

edited 4th Oct '13 6:50:14 AM by Notoyax17

"Yo, those kids are straight up liars, man. All I told them to do was run product. And by product, I mean chewing gum."