Right. Given the high quality of discussion on OTC about other issues, it would be nice to have some Troper input on this thorniest of Middle Eastern issues. Tropers wanting a brief overview of Israel should check out its Useful Notes page, or Israel
and Palestine's country profiles on the BBC.
At the outset, however, I want to make something very clear: This thread will be about sharing and discussing news. Discussions about whether the existence of Israel is justified would be off-topic, as would any extended argument or analysis about the countries' history.
So, let's start off:
At the moment, the two countries, prodded by the United States, are currently attempting to negotiate peace. A previous round of talks collapsed in 2010 after Israel refused to order a halt to settlement building on Palestinian land. US mediators will be present.
The aim of the talks is to end the conflict based on the "two state solution" - where independent Palestinian and Israeli states exist alongside each other. Both sides have expressed cynicism, although the US government has said it is "cautiously optimistic".
Key issues of the talks:
- Jerusalem: The city is holy to both Islam and Judaism. Both Palestine and Israel claim it as their capital. Israel has de facto control over most of it, a situation its Prime Minister has said will persist for "eternity". Some campaigners hope it can become an international city under UN or joint Israeli/Palestinian administration.
- Borders and settlements: The Palestinian Authority claims that the land conquered by Israel in the Six Day War of 1967 (the West Bank and the Gaza Strip) is illegally occupied, and must be vacated by Israel in the event of a future Palestinian state. However, there are over 500,000 Israeli citizens living in settlements across the "Green line". Israel claims that a future Palestinian government would oppress or ethnically cleanse them, whilst many settlers claim that the land is rightfully theirs, as they have an ethno-religious link to it as part of the ancestral homeland of the Jewish people.
- Palestinian refugees: In 1948, around 700,000 Palestinian Arabs left the territory of the new Israeli state. The reasons why are still debated - preferably elsewhere. The Palestinian negotiators wish for them and their descendants to have a right of return to Israel. The Israeli government considers only those who were actually forced away all those years ago to have a legitimate claim (if that). The US government considers them all refugees, to Republican fury.
So you can see why its never been fixed. The religious dimension in particular has a lot of people vexed - asking Muslims or Jews to abandon Jerusalem has been likened to asking Catholics to skip communion.
Still, there's hope. Somewhere. The latest developments in the region:
- Israel has released 26 imprisoned Palestinian prisoners convicted of attacks on Israeli civilians and agreed to release another 78 in the future.
- Israel has OK'ed development of 900 new homes east of the "Green Line" in a controversial move ahead of the talks.
- Hamas is to execute publicly two prisoners in Gaza
- The new Palestinian government will not reunite the feuding Gazan and Transjordanian (West Bank) elements of Hamas and Fatah.
edited 15th Aug '13 2:10:49 PM by Achaemenid
A procrastination in of itself
If anyone is upset about my comparison take it up with the Israeli defence minister, he’s the one parroting Nazi propaganda repurposed for use against Muslims.
edited 20th May '18 6:37:37 PM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Night Clerk of the Apacalypse.
Wow that newspaper heading was so very special.
Who watches the watchmen?
(Avatar by Coffee)
I knew Lieberman was dumb but I didn't know he was that dumb. *sighs*
The voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground
Anka Aquila
And we have come full circle people.
Dear lord, I can't even muster disgust at that tweet.
Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Because the western media is so sympathetic towards Muslims.
I feel sad for all the sane Israelis who just want some safety. They don't deserve being leaded for someone who just copypasted a Anti Semitic Conspiracy.
Also, expect for the actual anti Semites using that new to acuse Israel of "projecting themselves".
edited 23rd May '18 10:30:25 PM by KazuyaProta
Watch me destroying my country
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
Speaking of repurposed Nazi imagery...
(Avatar by Coffee)
Not seeing how this is Nazi imagery...? I mean, it's eh, but getting the President's Citation is a very high honour, so...
The voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground
Disasturbator
Might wanna note the image is naked baby in the womb wearing a cap
Edt:Would be helpful if you elaborated on what the poster meant
edited 25th May '18 3:12:58 PM by Ultimatum
New theme music also a box
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
Advertising unborn children as future soldiers is classic militarist imagery that the Nazis were notorious for indulging in - see stuff like the Cross of Honour for the German Mother. In fact, it’s a little more extreme than most Nazi posters - they at least had the good taste to use ‘future soldier’ imagery on children rather than foetuses
◊. It’s a particularly extreme sign of a country orienting itself around its capacity to commit violence, and usually goes hand-in-hand with a bunch of other uncomfortable shit (for instance, if Israeli babies are future soldiers, what are Palestinian babies?).
It’s also worth noting that a satirical cartoonist had the idea years before this hospital decided to play it straight.
edited 25th May '18 4:45:54 PM by Iaculus
What's precedent ever done for us?
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I'm sorry, but I just had to laugh at the Twitter account's description:
"New York Times bestseller, Eisner award winner, Humus eater cartoonist from Tel Aviv Israel"
![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
One of those is not like the others.
Got the quote from Guatemalan president Jimmy Morales on their embassy move:
I decided to return the embassy of Guatemala to the city of Jerusalem two days after the United States moved its embassy.
This is a sovereign decision and as a sovereign decision, we recognise Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
—-
BBC mentions that Honduras will have plans to move their embassy to Jerusalem.
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
Mahmoud Abbas is dead, and there’s no clear successor.
West Bank politics are about to get messy.
What's precedent ever done for us?
Link doesn't work.
And FWIW, I'm not seeing this on any of the major news sites yet.
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Me neither, which is why I'm a bit skeptical.
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
Looks like it was a false alarm, but he’s an eighty-two-year-old chain-smoker who’s been hospitalised with something nasty. General sentiment stands.
(Avatar by Coffee)
Nothing about it in Israeli media. It's fake news or misinformation.
The voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
As I said, his death appears to be bad info, but he’s definitely been hospitalised, and ‘lung infection’ and ‘eighty-two-year-old chain-smoker’ is a real bad combo.
(Avatar by Coffee)
He's out of the hospital as of earlier today and will go back to work tomorrow (source in Hebrew).
O Sleepless Mustelid
Have foreign networks mentioned anything of today’s rocket barrages? Apparently it’s the most significant one since the last Gaza war, with no real end in sight. Nobody was hurt yet but a kindergarten got destroyed down south.
Edit: a few soldiers injured.
edited 29th May '18 7:22:52 AM by InsomniacWeasel
"We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried. Most people were silent."
(Avatar by Coffee)
Yes. Independent article; Business Insider article; Financial Times article; ChannelNews Asia article; BBC article; there are also articles on Sputnik, the Daily Fail and the Sexpress, but I'm not linking those (not gonna give them clicks).
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
Interesting that neither Hamas nor Islamic Jihad has claimed responsibility. Maybe someone launched a home-made Qassam and the rest of the neighbourhood followed suit? I’m pretty sure internal Gazan politics are messier than usual after Hamas clamped down on the Day of Return protests, and I’ve seen a number of people saying that after the border massacre, Gazans would resort to rocketry as a safer protest mechanism - they’re going to get shot regardless of how violent or peaceful they are, and at least this way they can get into cover when it happens (and do measurable damage to the people besieging them).
One question is what happened to that kindergarten. If it was destroyed, that would suggest a heavy weapon of the sort that only a major faction would have access to, but the Beeb and Indy are just saying the rocket only landed near it and lightly injured a worker (which means the Qassam option would still be viable). Got a source on it being levelled?
What's precedent ever done for us?
O Sleepless Mustelid
I heard the news early in the morning. It’s more likely what I heard was an inaccurate exaggeration since I’m not seeing anything about it right now. Seems the rocket only landed in the yard of the kindergarten.
"We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried. Most people were silent."
(Avatar by Coffee)
I'm hearing that PIJ kinda took responsibility by calling the mortar barrage "welcome", or sumsuch thing. Either way I'm not even certain that you can make homemade mortars and mortar shells.
Edit: And of course this is a page-topper.
edited 20th May '18 6:29:05 PM by M84
Disgusted, but not surprised