Right. Given the high quality of discussion on OTC about other issues, it would be nice to have some Troper input on this thorniest of Middle Eastern issues. Tropers wanting a brief overview of Israel should check out its Useful Notes page, or Israel
and Palestine's country profiles on the BBC.
At the outset, however, I want to make something very clear: This thread will be about sharing and discussing news. Discussions about whether the existence of Israel is justified would be off-topic, as would any extended argument or analysis about the countries' history.
So, let's start off:
At the moment, the two countries, prodded by the United States, are currently attempting to negotiate peace. A previous round of talks collapsed in 2010 after Israel refused to order a halt to settlement building on Palestinian land. US mediators will be present.
The aim of the talks is to end the conflict based on the "two state solution" - where independent Palestinian and Israeli states exist alongside each other. Both sides have expressed cynicism, although the US government has said it is "cautiously optimistic".
Key issues of the talks:
- Jerusalem: The city is holy to both Islam and Judaism. Both Palestine and Israel claim it as their capital. Israel has de facto control over most of it, a situation its Prime Minister has said will persist for "eternity". Some campaigners hope it can become an international city under UN or joint Israeli/Palestinian administration.
- Borders and settlements: The Palestinian Authority claims that the land conquered by Israel in the Six Day War of 1967 (the West Bank and the Gaza Strip) is illegally occupied, and must be vacated by Israel in the event of a future Palestinian state. However, there are over 500,000 Israeli citizens living in settlements across the "Green line". Israel claims that a future Palestinian government would oppress or ethnically cleanse them, whilst many settlers claim that the land is rightfully theirs, as they have an ethno-religious link to it as part of the ancestral homeland of the Jewish people.
- Palestinian refugees: In 1948, around 700,000 Palestinian Arabs left the territory of the new Israeli state. The reasons why are still debated - preferably elsewhere. The Palestinian negotiators wish for them and their descendants to have a right of return to Israel. The Israeli government considers only those who were actually forced away all those years ago to have a legitimate claim (if that). The US government considers them all refugees, to Republican fury.
So you can see why its never been fixed. The religious dimension in particular has a lot of people vexed - asking Muslims or Jews to abandon Jerusalem has been likened to asking Catholics to skip communion.
Still, there's hope. Somewhere. The latest developments in the region:
- Israel has released 26 imprisoned Palestinian prisoners convicted of attacks on Israeli civilians and agreed to release another 78 in the future.
- Israel has OK'ed development of 900 new homes east of the "Green Line" in a controversial move ahead of the talks.
- Hamas is to execute publicly two prisoners in Gaza
- The new Palestinian government will not reunite the feuding Gazan and Transjordanian (West Bank) elements of Hamas and Fatah.
edited 15th Aug '13 2:10:49 PM by Achaemenid
United Earth
Snerk. But that never happened.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Indiana Solo
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
it was clearly Just For Pun 
Night Clerk of the Apacalypse.
Bibi is part of a political snarl in the US. Paired with our own fucked up politicians like Boehner It is helping cause trouble in possibly setting things with Iran. Seriously fuck that guy.
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
The guy clearly hopes for a Republican Administration in the future. Despite the fact that Clinton is a big fan of Israel, while it was a Republican administration who first made pursuit of Palestinian statehood official US policy. But he doesn't think he's going to get anywhere with Obama any longer, so might as well curry favor with the other side. Or is doing this to show Obama that Congress will back whatever Netanyahu says, so Obama's got no real leverage when he stands up to Netanyahu.
(Avatar by Coffee)
With the Republicans as friends, who needs enemies?
The voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground
Obama has more power than congress on foreign policy.
I think this is about Bibi trying to get support for the upcoming elections.
United Earth
The perception on the Middle Eastern street is that Israel holds the US government hostage, and can afford to be as arrogant as they are because they know they can get away with almost anything and the US will back them up anyway.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
Considered that Congress and the Senate are currently controlled by people more receptive to Israeli lobbying than most... they actually have a point there.
The view from Australia isn't all that different (at least vis a vis the issues surrounding Israel's interactions with Palestine).
Although if Israel get's itself involved in domestic US politics that would almost certainly have to change. Let's hope they tackle the matter with Israel's usual tact.
A procrastination in of itself
Israel has already gotten involved, it's directly backed candidates in US elections (a massive international no-no) and has been trying to work around the US president and deal with Congress specifically because of political leanings.
And I'm saying hopefully it'll blow up in their faces.
United Earth
So, has he spoken yet? How did it go?
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
Holy hell, Netanyahu just lost Fox News.
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
Wonder how long it takes before we finally get fed up with Israel and leave them out to dry.
Oh really when?
United Earth
It would take the Jewish electorate giving up on the whole idea, which I don't think is likely to happen, indoctrinated as they are.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Can we drop terms like "indoctrinated"? People have opinions, often strong opinions, that disagree with me. That doesn't mean those opinions are really some malevolent external force.
Night Clerk of the Apacalypse.
Wow Bibi pissed off Fox? How the hell did that happen? Boehner may just have a bit of egg on his face if this is the case.
Who watches the watchmen?
United Earth
They were fed pro-Israel propaganda films that romanticized a colonialist, racist enterprise and presented a purposefully rose-tinted view of the country. To this day, they are constantly fed over-inflated reports of anti-semitism and given every encouragement to either emigrate to Israel or support it from afar.
This is bullshit. It's lies. It's naked propaganda. And it's wrong.
People are allowed to have their opinions, and I'm allowed to opine about where those opinions come from.
It's like when a certain right-wing nut troper affirmed that he came up with his shit himself, when it was clear he was regurgitating Fox News drivel and GOP top-down slogans. Guy couldn't mention poor people without calling them lazy in the same sentence.
Like it or not, the genealogy of ideas can be traced, and opinion-makers are a small minority. Most of us just a browse and chew and regurgitate what's given to us by "our" group.
edited 24th Jan '15 4:13:37 PM by TheHandle
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Indiana Solo
"Most of us just a browse and chew and regurgitate what's given to us by "our" group."
Which is the biggest problem with society today. And in general because it's certainly not new.
I'm baaaaaaack
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
Wow. That Fox News segment was cogent, even-handed, and entirely agreeable.
Shep Smith is literally the only person on Fox I like listening to, so I'm not at all surprised he's the one out of the whole cast to be even-handed.
A procrastination in of itself
It seems that a lot of them can be when they're allowed to, Fox has some very smart and well educated people on their payrole, they're just ordered to be factually inaccurate dumdasses a lot of the time. So more than anything what's shocking is that the Fox executives okayed such a segment.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
Yeah. Though I must say... I didn't expect the last quarter of that video at all. Do Western news channels tend to do this sort of thing to lighten up the mood or something?
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Polandball.
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