Bump again. What's the word on Mac Guffin Hostage? Keep current, or go for a different name? I still say Kidnapped Princess will cause problems. Mac Guffin Hostage might be bland, but it works.
Mac Guffin Hostage doesn't work, because it doesn't reflect what the trope is about: the Living MacGuffin being a relative of a powerful or high-status person.
How's Mac Guffin Relative? Better than That Person Who Isnt Important Except Due To Their Connection To Someone Else, at least.
It's not just a relative, it's a relative of a high-status person. We're also looking to imply that they're not just plot-relevant, but also endangered somehow, yes? The object of an Engagement Challenge shouldn't qualify, for instance?
On further consideration, I'll withdraw Kidnapped Princess, since it's a bit too close to Save the Princess.
edited 3rd Oct '15 6:00:23 PM by troacctid
Rhymes with "Protracted."
I'm still partial to High Status Mac Guffin Person or Very Important Mac Guffin Person. The latter is also a pun, which is always a bonus.
Jupiterian Local
VIP Mac Guffin could work.
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I like that one.
All Macguffins are very important, or they wouldn't be Macguffins.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Jupiterian Local
"VIP" has a specific connotation beyond the literal meaning of "very important person", though.
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
New crowner.
I spelled MacGuffin wrong in the crowner itself, oh well.
As usual, if anyone has any more alternatives, feel free to add them.
edited 5th Oct '15 8:04:08 AM by Discar
Added my two old suggestions for completeness' sake. I'm not yet sure what to vote for though
Hi
The new crowner's hooked and the thread title's adjusted.
I don't think VIP has the connotations we want at all. It usually refers to a person in the context of an event, like a party or a concert or an awards ceremony. That's really not what the trope is about. It certainly doesn't convey that they have a close relationship to an important character, or that they're imperiled somehow. And if you're divorcing it from that context and just using it in the sense of "Very Important Person" then it's redundant, because all Macguffins are Very Important by definition.
I mean, the president would be a VIP. Is this trope meant to cover people who are important in themselves? Because I thought it was supposed to be about the president's daughter. It seems like the president himself would fall under a different trope.
edited 6th Oct '15 2:27:15 PM by troacctid
Rhymes with "Protracted."
I think VIP would work okay, since it conveys the main idea: the character is sought because they're somehow important. It could be a President's daughter, but it could as well be the President himself (captured by ninjas, probably). As for the imperiled status, it's already implied in the person being treated as a MacGuffin — they're a hostage, or a target sought by heroes and/or villains.
If MacGuffin status automatically implies both VIP-ness and peril, then how exactly is the trope any different from Living MacGuffin?
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Jupiterian Local
Living MacGuffin (under the new definition) is a supertrope of which VIP Mac Guffin is a subtrope.
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.So would this mean we'd be changing the trope to be about, like, a Living MacGuffin who's a hotshot celebrity type? And not anything to do with being a hostage, or being related to an important person?
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Jupiterian Local
Which trope, Living MacGuffin or VIP Mac Guffin?
Living MacGuffin is being changed to any MacGuffin that's alive, full stop. VIP Mac Guffin would, to my understanding, entail any person that's treated like a MacGuffin because for their status (whether they're a government official, a business executive, just rich as hell, etc) or someone close to such a person who can be used as leverage against them (a child, spouse, etc). This is the definition at Sandbox.Mac Guffin Hostage. Hostageness (or at least pursuit by bad guys attempting to make them a hostage) is implied by their status as a MacGuffin, but not not actually necessary for the definition of the trope. (It could be that everyone is trying to make friends with them to gain social influence instead, for example.)
edited 7th Oct '15 7:25:07 AM by NativeJovian
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Bump. Is this enough to call?
VIP Macguffin. "VIP" carries connotations that are closer to "Hotshot celebrity" than "Important political figure or aristocrat."
◊ It's usually used in contexts like parties, concerts, and other sorts of events. If we use it in the title, the trope will take on those connotations too.
The current sandbox also doesn't really make sense in that context, so we'd need a new description that works with the name.
edited 10th Oct '15 2:05:17 AM by troacctid
Rhymes with "Protracted."
The Unknown
Yeah, VIP is really misleading for what the trope is about.
If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
& : Please explain how it's misleading.
Note: We're not talking about Living MacGuffin, we're talking about its subtrope that's about people being sought because of their high status.
Because the trope isn't focused on celebrity hotshots. At least not as far as I'm aware.
edited 10th Oct '15 11:21:05 AM by troacctid
Rhymes with "Protracted."
So what would you suggest as the definition of this subtrope?
Crown Description:
What would be the best way to fix the page?
I don't know... the problems with Holy Child and The President's Daughter arose mostly from overly narrow names. I'm really hesitant to do the same thing again.