Shin Megami Tensei IV *SPOILERS ABOUND*

Chuuni edge lords are hilarious. Anyone who disagrees clearly needs to be sacrificed for the new universe!

Yeah when people complain about what happened to Dagda I just sit there playing the world's tiniest violin.

I do the same when we kill the Partners for Anarchy. Especially when Dagda personally ends his mother.

On the subject of Dagda and Danu, I hope they make appearances as actual playable demons in future games. Oh, and get Xander Mobus back to play Dagda, because he was awesome.

And I'll say it again: Odin better be voiced by D.C. Douglas in all future games where he appears as a golden man with a blue left eye.

A demon's existence in SMT games always seem to be super impermanent. They can die a thousand times or be fused into a whole new demon or whatever, but they'll always end up back in Makai and come back as themselves or a different demon entirely.

Also hi, I've been stalking this thread and this is my first post here

edited 24th Jun '17 5:33:50 PM by DarkbloodCarnagefang

Eh, Danu didn't really validate Dagda's belief; it isn't like she weakened him with the power of bonds or anything, she just replaced him.

In the Devil Survivor games each demon actually has a unique quote upon being fused, most of which imply it's not actually a literal DBZ-style merger, more like the two weaker demons are sent off to... somewhere as a "payment," of sorts, for the summoning of the stronger one. They always say they'll see you again, too, so the versions you get from the Compendium are presumably literally the same individuals.

Always figured that they were sort of just converted into something along the liens of raw energy in order to constitute a new demon, not necessarily dying in the process.

edited 24th Jun '17 5:51:10 PM by PastryPerson

Except she did validate it. He drones on and on about others holding you back, and the Dagda she made to replace him literally states he wants to go Anarchy/Massacre as well because he too wishes for the same things as the original, but he won't because of his mommy.

And due to the cyclical nature of the demons and the eternal battle even without YHVH it's inevitable that it will come to pass.

That also doesn't validate what he's saying; I always thought that he meant that while he doesn't disagree with his past self, he's idealistic enough to search for a way that doesn't involve the massacre route. There's also a difference between bonds holding you back and somebody who's a "momma's boy "; everything in moderation. I mean, you work with a team through the entire game, so it isn't like you don't have any bonds whatsoever.

And Dagda takes problem with how stupid people are concerning Bonds. Someone explains it pretty well on the WMG page I believe. Heck he rightfully pointed out it isn't time to be making jokes after Toki became Inanna and was swept away.

She literally made a Dagda who dips into talking just like the original, but fits her ideals. And the way he talks about Mother suggests the original Dagda was very much a mommas boy before the sadly unmentioned(in game) Christianization of his daughter made him an edge lord.

If Dagda hated working together he wouldn't have unseen servants like mentioned in the Mikado DLC or letting Nanashi keep his will. Even Krishna points out how unnatural it is for a guy who wanted a puppet to talk to him as a person.

edited 24th Jun '17 6:37:34 PM by OmegaRadiance

Lemme check the WMG page, and I'll edit in my thoughts.

Though I do believe that it's pretty...well, wasteful that there were absolutely no in-game mentions about what happened to his daughter. It isn't like it'd hurt the story. /:

edited 24th Jun '17 6:42:26 PM by PastryPerson

And Brigid was in IV and IVA as well. There was even a quest from her in IV

Then her best friend from said quest appears in a minor quest for IVA eating people for fun.

edited 24th Jun '17 6:43:51 PM by OmegaRadiance

Might as well make an entirely new post.

Yeah, with that in mind, I can kind of see where he's coming from (assuming that WMG is indeed, what Dagda is all about); reminds me of Chaos a lot more than before.

Also, do you have the name of that quest? I'm planning on doing most of the sidequests this time around.

edited 24th Jun '17 6:50:04 PM by PastryPerson

The wiki mentions it on Brigids page I believe. I don't remember the name exactly and my phone crashes on wikis a lot. I think you get it from demons.

Danu's actions were harsh, but really, what could she have done? Dagda was in the process of trying to kill everyone in general and Nanashi in particular.

I agree; it was messed up, but while Dagda shouldn't be forced to sustain somebody with his power if he doesn't want to, outright trying to kill them while they're weakened is another deal entirely.

edited 24th Jun '17 7:43:48 PM by PastryPerson

It's also Laser-Guided Karma if Nanashi made mostly jackass decisions before going on Bonds. Dagda erases Nanashi's demons and forces him to fight alone.

On another topic, I find it interesting how Krishna fused with Flynn to create Vishnu-Flynn, and can't help but wonder what would have happened if Dagda did something like that.

Probably Tuatha De DaNanashi. :P

Simple actually. Danu creates another deity with ties to life and death to keep Nanashi going. She stole Inannas powers she could have done it, but nope got I make a tool in the image of her ideals.

All around I just really did not like her or Nozomi in the game.

Also, for his part Dagda made it clear as long as you kept your end of the bargain he'd keep you alive, but the moment you don't he will end it. The Divine Powers early bad ending is all about him doing exactly that. Funny that in Peace Final Battle you can turn it around and leave everyone high and dry to die by YHV Hs hands.

Wouldn't happen. Dagda doesn't want a mindless puppet which is what the beings who make such fusions always require. Consent only needed sometimes.

Was just speculating on what it'd be like, not it's plausibility.

Flynn wasn't really a mindless puppet at the time, by the way, he was just unable to defend himself. And probably unconscious, too.

Honestly, though, I'm cool with Danu, all things considered, but Nozomi sort of...just rubbed me the wrong way. I wanted to back off from the Ark now that we'd reached it and maybe see what the others thought, but Dagda forced me to unseal it. Plus, she makes things sound like we betrayed the Association; but we were tricked.

edited 25th Jun '17 12:36:54 AM by PastryPerson

Nozomi was changed a lot to be honest, and not in a good way.

Flynn was mindless in the state Krishna had him, it was one of Dagdas retorts about why Krishna didn't understand a Godslayers true power. Of course on Peace it was possible to break him out of it.

Agreed. Honestly, she felt almost like a completely different character from IV. I don't hate her, really, but I definitely don't like her. Mixed feelings.

edited 25th Jun '17 1:31:04 AM by PastryPerson

I didn't have a problem with Nozomi's character in Apocalypse, and I didn't feel she was that different from IV. Then again, I pretty much liked all the companion characters, including Gaston, even if he did take a little longer to grow on me.

I hope that the new demons in Apocalypse show up in future games. I would love to see Maitreya in an antagonistic role again, since he's such a smarmy bastard.

Pastry Person, I would ask you to take some of the stuff you find on both the WMG page and the fridge page with quite the fistful of salt. Those pages aren't as regulated as the main pages and can swing in either direction of validity. Much of what you find there are fan persived notions, sometimes done to try and justify the games narrative shortcomings (intentionally or not).

And yes you are correct when it comes to the alignment choices of this game being skewed. Everything from the narrative to the mechanics supports the Bonds route with everything being very black and white.

edited 26th Jun '17 1:07:50 AM by matteste