Shin Megami Tensei IV *SPOILERS ABOUND*

I can't be anything other than honest: I'm a person who believes the group is generally more important than the individual, and as such the likes of Anarchy, TDE, and most Chaos routes have little appeal to me.

edited 28th Nov '16 4:20:32 PM by HamburgerTime

I think there needs to be a balance between the community and the individual. On one hand, too much importance in the individual can lead to selfishness. On the other hand, too much emphasis on community can lead to "The nail that sticks out gets hammered in," and I was never a big fan of forced conformity.

Anyone who doesn't already know can immediately tell where on the Law-Neutral-Chaos axis I stand.

edited 28th Nov '16 4:48:26 PM by dragonfire5000

SMT2 is basically Lucifer fanfiction and should probably not count as an accurate representation of the LNC system.

Chaos is just as shit as Law. That is the point. There's no time to create any kind of stability or culture because then Oni eats your spine.

Communitarianism does have its downsides - at extreme levels it translates to seeing everyone as just a cog in the machine and all that, but I dunno, I feel more real-world problems (corporate greed, political corruption, etc.) are caused by extreme individualism.

YHVH and his cronies can suck a dick. I'm a bloodthirsty American who played Strange Journey and I really like how the Law and Chaos representatives in that game are from Russia (which has a strong ruler and thus Lawful) and the thirteen British colonies that eventually formed the U.S. (which revolted against what they perceived to be a tyrannical government so that their rights aren't trampled upon and thus Chaotic) respectively.

That is true, especially since YHVH is the Final Boss regardless of route.

edited 28th Nov '16 5:27:09 PM by CybranGeneralSturm

I have in interesting headcanon about Zelenin with respect to that. Given her apparent age and the game's Next Sunday A.D. setting I think she was likely growing up in early-'90s Russia, just after the Soviet Union fell. Not a pleasant place to be, by any stretch of the imagination. I think she probably grew up nostalgic for the Communist era despite never really living through it - the whole "Mussolini made the trains run on time" principle and all that.

Mussolini didn't actually make the trains run on time.

edited 28th Nov '16 5:27:38 PM by HamburgerTime

YHVH was evil in Megami Tensei II and Lucifer wasn't and they retconned to Well-Intentioned Extremist(And The Extremist Was Right) for the first one in Kyuyaku.

Or how most of the Angels are dicks in Devil Children and Lucy was benevolent and the father of two, and all Devil Children are Chaos-aligned.

Even Majin Tensei had him as Neutral but well meaning and the sequel has you beat him up literally because he's just standing there not doing anything bad.

Even Nocturne favors TDE the ending he advocates for the most, with Freedom being secondary.

Shouldn't be surprising considering Devilmans influence in the series and why we have too many Akiras all of whom become demonic in some manner at some point. P5 doesn't even bother with that and just has manga name Akira summon Gnostic Lucy to kill Gnostic YHVH.

I am aware. You don't need to Chaosplain at me.

What I am saying is that it's stupid and the franchise's massive Chaos boner undercuts the best thing about it; the ability to choose.

The creators themselves have admitted chaos is the root of the series. No Chaos = No SMT. This is the logical conclusion of that.

edited 28th Nov '16 7:23:31 PM by OmegaRadiance

True. Then again, YHVH and the Great Will were both part of Law for a very significant chunk of the series so back then it was understandable that almost nobody liked Law.

edited 28th Nov '16 6:13:07 PM by CybranGeneralSturm

This is why I think that at this stage, a benevolent take on YHVH would be an awesome twist.

edited 28th Nov '16 7:04:00 PM by HamburgerTime

Honestly, I think YHVH being benevolent kind of kills the spirit of Shin Megami Tensei (and by spirit, I mean almost every god is a raging asshole, which makes it all the more fun when they're enslaved to your will) and I kind of hope that never happens.

I'd find messing with the player's expectations like that fun, at least.

Is it just me, or are the enemies in Trumpeter's area of Twisted Tokyo a bit more aggressive than the enemies from previous Twisted Tokyo areas?

Huh. YHVH actually has skill affinities, though you can't see them in the game. +9 for Phys, Almighty, and all four elements, and +5 for Support. No negatives, being God and all that.

His affinities like the rest of him got stronger when Demonized.

Huh, looks like a certain somebody was going to be fusible originally. Why'd they even bother dubbing this?

edited 4th Dec '16 8:33:40 PM by HamburgerTime

Huh. I'm guessing green snake form since it can talk. Would have been real cool.

Especially since his "good" form, Ananta, was completely cut from the game.

EDIT: One for Vishnu was found as well.

edited 4th Dec '16 8:47:15 PM by HamburgerTime

I'm still really intrigued that the Shesha clip not only exists, but was dubbed. Is it possible it is actually in the game, but it's such a mega-ultra-secret that nobody's found it yet? I think back to stuff like the ridiculously obscure FFIX side quest that took 13 years to find; this sort of thing does happen occasionally.

edited 5th Dec '16 7:19:03 PM by HamburgerTime

Well it's not the first time that's happened. Remember those lines from a cut Yosuke romance in Persona 4 that were still dubbed?

Actually looking into the Persona 4 stuff, there's quite a bunch of cut content that received the same treatment. I'm not going to pretend I know how game localization works, but it feels like translating stuff and finding where it fits into the game (if it does at all) are separate to an extent.

Wut.

edited 5th Dec '16 8:04:01 PM by kkhohoho

You can listen to the lines here.

Shesha recruitment line.

Vishnu recruitment line.

So I was right, they've announced SOMETHING for the anniversary next year, though of course they're being coy about what it is right now.