Star Ocean 4. vs. Final Fantasy XIII

The fal'Cie calls its parents/god their "Maker", after they had been abandoned to look after the stupid humans by the fal'Cie. How is that a blatant lie when it basically supports the mythology of the game? The fal'Cie wouldn't even know the real names since they're orphans.

Because it's all bullshit. The Maker is God. In the Japanese version they even just call it God. Capital G.

Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent.

There is no such being in FFXIII. There is only like four ofr five gods.

Like I said, the actual story tells us this: God exists > God made fal'Cie and humans.

But the mythology you can only learn about from optional material tells us there is several gods and two separate ones made humans and fal'Cie.

The fal'Cie are wrong you say? That's fine by me. Only the story doesn't even vaguely hint at this.

look at it in another way.

Where is the name "Etro" ever said in a cutscene in FFXIII?

That's right, it's never mentioned anywhere. Yet this completely unspoken about deity is the one who saved everyone at the end of XIII.

The mythology of XIII is never once -accurately- addressed in XIII's story.

Ya know I didn't hate XIII when i first played it. I thought the story was weak but the characters were good.

It was only after I logged on here and learned everything I thought I knew about the story was BS that I turned against the game.

edited 18th May '13 10:06:16 PM by Nikkolas

Sorry I'm late to this thread but I just got Star Ocean 4 recently. I like both FFXIII and SO4 but there's a lot more replay value in Star Ocean, the characters are better and the combat is more fun. The level design and monsters are better in FFXIII.

Both stories are awful. The funny thing is, I really liked both stories up until the endings, then this happened for FFXIII:

Almost literally, A Wizard Did It. I didn't mind too much though; all Final Fantasy stories take a downturn at some point and FFXIII's just took longer to do so than usual. I didn't mind it in FFXIII but hated that they bothered to use such a ridiculous explanation in FFXIII-2.

Star Ocean's was a massive case of Contrived Coincidence though, given that without Edge being the one to go to Nox Obscuris and unleash his 11th-Hour Superpower (which was basically magic, even though it was genetic modification that gave him the powers), the crew would've been trapped in the final boss' alternate Grigori-filled dimension. Without Lymle, the Calnus would never have made it through (and it's only through luck that they did). I can buy all that but what really frustrated me was Edge's magic genetic modification power saving his life ... but not Faize's.

No. Sorry, no. Using a bullshit convenient magic power to save one life is fine but using it to save the other is too much?

Overall, even though I enjoyed FFXIII, Star Ocean 4 is the better game. I just completed it a couple of days ago and, from the looks of things, there's still a lot of sidequests to be done. You can't argue with that kind of replay value.

By the way, Nikkolas, you said Star Ocean 4 is a "highly contested" entry in the series. Can I ask why?

edited 17th Jun '13 3:03:05 PM by Guest1001

There is a secret ending you can get by doing some extra stuff. Faize is shown to have survived.

Oh, I like that. :)

@Nikkolas:You do realize that XIII-2 retconned the original story right?

Didn't the retcons come from something in the analects though?

EDIT: And what exactly is the difference between things like the Datalog and the Codex in Mass Effect, or the Ansem Reports in kingdom hearts, or the Chaos Reports in dissidia?

edited 17th Jun '13 4:58:22 PM by unnoun

Guest 1001: "By the way, Nikkolas, you said Star Ocean 4 is a "highly contested" entry in the series. Can I ask why?"

I can't say with cerainty, as I haven't played Star Ocean 1 or 2, but I'd guess it's because of the Cliché Storm cobbled together with the fact It's New So It Sucks.

As far as I can tell, the series has always been cliche as hell but, with the limitations of technology mostly gone, SO 3 and 4 are able to indulge their anime-ness a lot more. This means people could focus more on the gameplay and forget the plot or characters. Modern cutscenea dn voice-acting do not allow for that as much.

Welch all on her lonesome tends to receive a heaping helping of scorn from fans of the first two games and some of them complain about her being put in the remakes for the PSP.

Self-aware or not, Star Ocean 4 panders to otakus and a lot of gamers don't want to be associated with that. If you are a fan of The Spoony One, his mock review of Final Fantasy VII can be used here. SO 1 and 2 are for gamers only but with Till the End of Time and The Last Hope, the really big anime freaks were drawn in.

Fans of the old games or not, Star Ocean 4 might very well be THE most hated JRPG of last generation, at least on boards like these. It certainly seems to be the most reviled JRPG that continues a long-running series at least. It gets more hate than XIII, not because XIII is better, but because XIII was more of a mainstream title and thus people found it less offensive than a game that pandered to anime tropes and cliches.

edited 28th Jul '13 4:06:22 AM by Nikkolas

Well that makes sense. I'm not a fan of anime (and I loathed Welch) so I can see why the tone of the plot would bother some people. Didn't bother me though.

I might have to take back my opinion of Star Ocean 4 being the better game though; I hate the Wandering Dungeon.

I thought Welch provided some genuinely funny moments, like when she was introduced to new party members.

Horrible plot or not, SO 4 has a lot of (intentional) silliness. That helps a lot I think.

Also you gave XIII the edge in level designs? I dunno, man. I loved the Palace of Creation way more than Orphan's Cradle There's also the fact that you can actually EXPLORE the dungeons in SO 4. And if you count all areas together, TLH has to take it don't you think? Being able to run around all the different planets sure beat the corridors in XIII IMO.

And you didn't mention music. Which did you prefer in that area?

Music is honestly one of the biggest factors for me. I talked about the Palace of Creation earlier and I remember it not only because of its design, but also because of this fantastic final dungeon theme.

Comparing normal battles themes... Blood on the Keys vs. Blinded by Light is a tough one... Very different tunes. But I'd give it to SO 4 for its other regular battle theme For Achieve.

edited 28th Jul '13 5:18:58 AM by Nikkolas

Welch isn't as annoying in the remakes of 1 and 2, mostly because Melissa Fahn does not screech like Laura Bailey.

Also, SO 2 is considered a classsic because of its sheer replay value, Relationship Values and possible recruitable characters. It hasn't aged very well, but it was one of the few games at the time to be like that (the Tales Series is another) and it came after FFVII's massive success. It was also one of the first Enix games to leave Japan and have real-time combat, making it very original for its time.

I don't really think it's Bailey's fault. I'm no fan of her little girl voice but No voice-actress on Earth could make SO 4 Welch bearable.

If remake Welch is more like SO 3 Welch then I personally wouldn't have a problem with her.

And I need to play the first two SO games sometime. SO 4 made me really curious to play the first game due to all the stuff on Roak.

I'd really dig a music discussion and comparison if anyone had any thoughts on that.

I enjoy the soundtracks to both games quite a bit so there'd be no arguments.

Well, Blinded by Light is one of the best (if not the best) FF regular battle themes, but other than that, Masashi Hamauzu doesn't really match Sakuraba. Then again, Sakuraba is one of my favourite VG composers. Incarnation of the Devil, for one, is amazing and appears in every game in the series:

I will admit, I probably liked Born Anew more than SO 4's final boss theme Maelstrom's Clutches.

I wanna take a moment to praise one of the more underrated tracks in The Last Hope though.

All these songs are part of a soundtrack, which means they are usually linked to a point in the story. Your impression of that part of the story and the song will be linked together If it's done well, both come out stronger for it.

Hearing this play when you return to Aeos is nothing short of perfect. The devastated remains of your allies' base, said allies all turning up missing, the color change of the sky - and this song - it all combines to make a perfect sense of foreboding.

The song itself is really good but it is one of my favorite tracks simply because of how well-implemented it is.

edited 29th Jul '13 6:48:48 PM by Nikkolas

Even I liked a few things about XIII. The main party was decently strong, each having their own personal and understandable motivation to be there. A big part of what kept me going was waiting for the inevitable Snow/Hope confrontation as they were my favorite members of the party. I felt that whole subplot was expertly done.

Sazh and Vanille also had a wonderful dynamic and I did not see their subplot's ending coming at all. It was also adequately emotional.

The problem lay in Lightning, whom I hated, and Fang, who i didn't care about.

Then of course you end up on Pulse and the character development just dies and now it's all about "the Plot." God save us from FFXIII's plot.

The very beginning of the game is also very frustrating as they literally bombard you with terms like Cocoon, PSICOM, Sanctum, fal'Cie, etc.. I didn't get any of this until I looked it all up and by tht time I was scratching my head in irritation. This is bad storytelling. Contrast with FFVII, where Barret is kind enough to explain what the hell is going on here with the Mako Reactor and what Mako is. FFVII has a very fast paced beginning just like XIII but the former was well-done while the latter was not.

SO 4's beginning is also nice enough to give you some exposition to explain everything that's going on. Exposition might be a bit of a lazy tool but it's still better than having to search datalogs or get on the internet and ask people.

I guess I'd say SO 4 had a better articulated and put together storyline while XIII had deeper characters. Not more likable - definitely not - but better explored and easier to relate to.

edited 31st Dec '13 10:59:19 AM by Nikkolas