Star Ocean 4. vs. Final Fantasy XIII

So when i got my 360 the first game I got for it was FF 13. When I got my PS 3 the first game I got for it was Star Ocean: The Last Hope.

Both long-running series from two companies that now are one. Both highly contested entries in those series as well.

So...which did you like better and why?

I don't really think they can be comepared. Its possible to like one over the other but they're so different in what they're trying to do a direct comparison just doesn't seem possible to me.

Hmm.

They're both despised by their respective fanbases.

Though SO4 is slightly more anime than XIII.

That's about all I know.

Star Ocean 4, I haven't played it, but I gotta still put it over FFXIII. That game was that bad.

I can't really say, as I've not played either. Star Ocean 3 completely soured me on the franchise, and nothing I've heard about FF 13 makes it sound vastly appealing. I *might* eventually give FF 13 a try, but there are too many other games to play anyway, so. . .

I haven't finished either, but...

FF 13 has far better voice acting and graphics.

SO 4 Has far superior combat.

Other than that, not much I can say. :V

Having played both, FFXIII. Better graphics, better writing, better voice-acting... level design and combat have flaws of roughly equal weight

I dunno about better writing. Lightning and Hope discussing the SYMBOLISM of their names has to be an almost unprecedented level of failure in terms of writing.

I give XIII the nod in terms of music and voice-acting but I'd take SO 4 in every other area. The storyline was far more engaging, the Private Action stuff made you feel more in-tune with your characters and I don't even think it's debatable when it comes to worldbuilding or design. XIII's world was so horrifically underused that even though SO 4 travels to multiple planets each of those planets feels more alive than Cocoon.

...By omission, that suggests that you think SO4 has better graphics

Quite so. SO4 worldbuilding is several episodes of the worst that Star Trek has to offer strung together, while FFXIII offers something unique and interesting

Yes, but a lot of FF 13's worldbuilding breaks one of the golden rules of screenwriting, "Show, Don't Tell". Most of the information isn't shown in game, it's mentioned in long, boring Wikipedia articles.

Hey. It's called the datalog and they ain't long.

Overall I'd have to say I liked FF XIII more, even though I somehow enjoyed SO 4 more.

Okay

Level design: FFXIII mostly just had you walk forward with the occasional side-path, but kept the scenery interesting, had frequent save points/shops, andplenty of warp points in the one level that was open. Overall, boring from a gameplay perspective, but not irritating. SO4 had more frequent puzzles, but is repetive, filled with backtracking, and save points and shops are both scarcer than can be comfortable

Combat: I mostly find FFXIII's combat system to work pretty well, but the lack of ability to switch characters and average fight length are definite issues. Combat in SO4 theoretically has a fair bit of depth, but essentially boils down to this: Find an enemy that's attacking one of your dipshit allies and attack until you draw aggro. Do the spinny round the back thing whenever it attacks, and score a critical for your trouble. Repeat until everything is dead. The only major exceptions are bosses, which are rare and have problems of their own

FFXIII's setting: ...I haven't seen anything else like it, and I'm familiar with a large number of fantasy worlds? I'm not sure what to say here

"...By omission, that suggests that you think SO 4 has better graphics "

I honestly ddin't even think about graphics as that means next to nothing to me. I guess FFXIII wins that area as well.

"Quite so. SO 4 worldbuilding is several episodes of the worst that Star Trek has to offer strung together, while FFXIII offers something unique and interesting"

An artificial planet ruled by a tyrant masquerading as a ice old dude and controlling its masses through fear?

Whats' so unique about that exactly?

You see next-to-nothing of Cocoon. You visit one city in normal time, another city during a Police State manhunt and another city during a monster attack. The people and environment of the planet are what your party is supposed to be hellbent on protecting but you have no reason to really care about any of these nameless folks you see for all of 2% of the game.

...Wow. Not only are you ignoring the bulk of the setting, but you're twisting the parts you can't ignore into something more generic. That's it, I'm out

What "bulk of the setting?" There are two worlds and you see only one of them for a fraction of the story while the other world takes up the majority of the story

Pulse is comprised of a large area of nothing, a truly horrible dungeon and an empty village.

Cocoon is the only setting that is even partially explored. The life and culture of Pulse from the past is barely addressed at all. God knows Vanille and Feng barely ever say two words about what life was like back then. A flashback might have helped too. Ya know, maybe show what day-to-day life was like for the two of them and the other inhabitants of Oerba?

If you are so convinced of XIII's worldbuilding superiority, defend it.

If you want to get into a talk about out-of-cutscene infodumps, SO 4 has a Dictionary that explains all about the races and cultures of the various worlds. It's not quite as expansive as SO 3's but I'm pretty sure it's bigger than XIII's.

edited 17th May '13 6:07:38 PM by Nikkolas

Honestly though, FFXIII doesn't even need to be that impressive to overshadow SO 4.

But what's impressive about it? That's what I want him to explain.

What's more, how was I twisting the facts to make them more generic? Was there not a villain pretending to be a benevolent ruler? Was there not a constant stream of propaganda to make people believe that Pulse was death? That l'Cie were evil?

How is it twisting anything to summarize this all as a tyrant pretending to be an old man manipulating the masses with fear?

I just want to hear explanations for his reasoning.

edited 17th May '13 6:14:24 PM by Nikkolas

That's a terrible summary, by the way. It's way less about manipulating the masses and way more about programming and destiny.

Fair enough.

I still am curious to hear what was so amazing about XIII's worldbuilding and setting.

edited 17th May '13 6:55:26 PM by Nikkolas

The Cocoon setting was kind of like Brave New World except it missed the whole, quality writing prospect. The main world building I presume is about how it wasn't about a tyrant being a brainwashing dictator, rather, gods being dictators so they can kill everyone to make bigger gods come back.

edited 18th May '13 12:39:55 AM by absolclaw

The story was all about the Zeroth Law Rebellion of all-powerful beings that lacked free will. Benevolent Gods who felt shackled by their obligations to humanity. Whether they were good or evil or tyrants had nothing to do with anything and I feel like focusing on that is missing the point in a large way. Especially since their situation is meant to blatantly parallel the protagonists'.

edited 18th May '13 12:43:29 AM by Clarste

And that's a pretty neat idea like I consented to in the FF thread. The problem arises with how poorly explained the fal'Cie are. For example, what level of intelligence do they all possess? Why are Barthandalus and Orphan sentient wielders of phenomenal cosmic power while others are just giant spinning wheels that our heroes can casually overpower and use as a bus?

The Death Seeker aspect isn't really hinted at whatsoever until the very end of the game. The fal'Cie rebellion is really just a one-man show of Barthandalus saying he wants to kill everyone for no discernable reason up until that point.

And I still take offense to the main story outright lying to you about the mythology of the setting. There is no "Maker". The mythology is only explained in optional stuff and it contradicts what is said in the actual plot.

edited 18th May '13 7:00:40 AM by Nikkolas

The story doesn't lie. The fal'Cie simply call Bandersnath or Buthivelze or whatever its called that cuz they're stupid. And the whole fal'Cie death thing is clearly explained in the chapter right after the big bad's reveal, so I don't know what you're talking about there.

Raines Why? To restore the Maker.

Hope The Maker?

Raines The entity responsible for creating both humans and fal'Cie. Long ago, the Maker departed this world, leaving the two races behind.In a sense, human and fal'Cie are brothers; orphaned by the same parent.

So, no, outright lie. Two completely separate beings made the fal'Cie we know and humankind.

And you can say "Well, Cid is wrong/misinformed" but given absolutely nothing hints to that in the actual story, it's still a storytelling flop.

Here is the cosmology as outlined in the cutscenes.

God.

God made fal'Cie and humans.

There is no mention whatsoever of a supreme god (goddess? I believe the second god was the first's son?) who made another god who made two other gods with one making humans and one making fal'Cie.

Also I thought the fal'Cie were trying to revive Lindzei? He's their creator, correct?

edited 18th May '13 9:11:20 PM by Nikkolas