Are there too many "Otaku-Pandering" Anime

...is this real?

Yes, it is.

Honestly i don't have a problem with "Otaku-type" shows than I do with all the shallow Fanservice/Moe/Lolicon/Fetish Harems that have cropped up over the years.

If the Japanese is talking about phasing those types of shows and the Shana-like Tsunderes out, I say Good Riddance.

edited 5th May '13 1:35:54 PM by Lionheart0

Regarding the OP's reference to the Japanese government's comments on otaku-pandering, I'm pretty sure that those guys don't particularly care about the creative merits of anime, when they comment about otaku pandering, that's just about conservatives being weirded out by grown men watching cartoons.

It's important to note, that while anime is a niche in Japan, this often has more to do with prejudices against the medium itself, than with any clichés or themes or content that westerners would call niché. For example, the former Japanese president explicitly described himself as an otaku, and was once spotted on an airport reading a Rozen Maiden manga. Or there is the kawaiisa, innocence-fetishizing idol singer group AKB 48, that is the single biggest pop-musical thing happening in the country, with a higher household penetration ratio comparable to Lady Gaga in the US, and official postage stamps issued in their honor by the country. Nisekoi was mentioned earlier as the example of a pandering manga, but that's still being released in Shonen Jump, that has a weekly circulation of 3 million copies.

The truth is, that whenever we are talking about otaku-pandering, there is always a large chance of mixing up the aspects of anime that are uniquely Japanese, with the ones that are uniquely otaku-focused we met all of them in anime first, so we tend to assume that they are all just "anime tropes", even when they are not. And news like this, could be read as Japanese politicians hating on moe and fanservice, if we wouldn't have examples that they (and the Japanese mainstream in general) are pretty fine with fanservice and moe, as long as it's not animated.

edited 5th May '13 3:36:19 PM by Ever9

Isn't that what "Otaku-focused" anime tends to be?

Fetish-focused anime are pretty uncommon and don't tend to do well, but the other things he said are typical of otaku focused anime.

Still, let's not start labeling shounen harems like Nisekoi or Love Hina as otaku pandering. They might a little, but their primary target are ordinary teenage boys. Also, just be clear, let's not mix Magical Girl shows aimed towards an older male audience like Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha and those aimed towards little girls like Shugo Chara. Pretty Cure is a bit in a gray zone as it tries for both, but I guess it qualifies for family show in a weird way, not to mention that there is more Kamen Rider fan pandering than any other type.

edited 5th May '13 9:34:40 PM by slibyak

Pretty Cure airs on Sunday mornings, right after Super Sentai and Kamen Rider, so it's probably a family show.

Mahou Sensei Negima is pretty good.

Ignorant question from someone relatively unfamiliar with Japanese culture: what is the status of light novels in Japan? Are they seen as something for only the hard-core otaku crowd, like visual novels or a good deal of anime? Or are they more generally acceptable, like manga?

I'm asking because it seems like many of the 'otaku-pandering' anime seem to have their source in light novels, so I'm wondering if the stigma here is more from the content or the medium.

edited 5th May '13 10:21:32 PM by BokhuraBurnes

I would personally disagree with Negima being "otaku-pandering", in the sense that it grew out of the "slice of life" mold that "otaku-pandering" usually refers to.

.......I would also say that many in the fandom would highly object to your use of the word "is", but that's a whole 'nother mess I'd like to not tangle anyone in.

edited 5th May '13 10:23:58 PM by Watchtower

It doesn't need to be infinite, but it could be a lot bigger. Anime is still niche, when technically there's no reason for it to be. The absolute limit for growth is when every single person in the world who can afford to watches anime, but even a more reasonable goal of having somewhat less mainstream popularity than the film industry is currently far away.

In other words you're selfish? If you don't care about anything that doesn't directly affect you then why are you even responding to a topic about government policy-makers talking about how to improve the economy?

Yeah, in fact, Japan is the 10th most populous nation in the world, right between Russia and Mexico, and it's the world's most populous island nation, doubling the UK's numbers.

IE: Significantly less than 10% of the world. Closer to 2%, actually. If anime was just as popular in the rest of world as it is in Japan (which is honestly not even that popular if 10k, less than 0.1% of the population, is considered a major hit), then they'd be making at least 50 times as much money. I didn't mean that Japan was tiny relative to other island nations, just that it's not a huge fraction of the world.

edited 6th May '13 3:47:23 AM by Clarste

It's certainly not niche in Japan. But I remember anime being extremely popular on Cartoon Network. Anyway, don't personally see much point for Japanese animation to take over the entire world. Yes, Japan has a lot of good cartoons, and maybe kids' animation worldwide could be better, but Japan's cartoons aren't all amazing, not even close. More reasonable is if the quality standards for kids' cartoon actually rise, rather expecting Japan to take care of everything for the entire world. Lauren Faust's done some good work on that front.

edited 6th May '13 3:39:47 AM by CassidyTheDevil

The majority of anime is still pretty niche in Japan given that they air at Otaku O'Clock (of which most don't even get 1% of the household ratings if those numbers are correct) and are fueled by the sales of only tens of thousands of copies for a "popular" series.

I can't really say much more given that I have an exam in an hour.

edited 6th May '13 5:50:19 AM by Pokénatic

You have to remember "anime" just means Japanese cartoons (well, actually it just means "cartoons" in Japan XP) They have no shortage of those, and they're certainly not only for "otaku".

edited 6th May '13 5:28:09 AM by CassidyTheDevil

I never said that they were only for otaku. I said that most of them were targeting a niche audience.

EDIT: Okay, maybe I shouldn't have used "vast majority" in the last post.

edited 6th May '13 5:50:08 AM by Pokénatic

And how would focusing on non-otaku market make the economy bigger, by making the anime industry's profits smaller than now, just as they were like the last time during a mainstream anime boom (as seen on your chart)?

And why do you even assume that the policy-makers are talking about replacing otaku-pandering with western-pandering, as opposed to local Japanese kid-pandering?

Besides, even if this time it would somehow result in more sales, there is already plenty of entertainment for everyone to watch. I don't see why the anime industry replacing those mediums is the best interest of anyone, other than the anime industry leaders themselves (and at the expense of every other industry). People have a fixed budget, if they spend more on anime, they spend less on something else.

How is it selfish to want my favorite genres to keep doing their own thing, instead of getting replaced by something else that is technically still animated, and still made in Japan?

If otaku anime sell than it's good for the market. Eliminating them would be stupid idea.

The problem with this particular market is that it's very niche, and tends to crowd out the others.

That being said, it's unclear what these Japanese politicians are defining as "otaku" anime. Honestly, I think just pushing for more anime to be aired at sane hours of the day would be an effective incentive to appeal to a broader market, but I'm not sure how you'd do that. Reserve a couple hours Saturday morning for anime? I have only the vaguest impression of Japanese tv schedules, so I don't really have any concrete ideas.

After pondering on what exactly "otaku-pandering" actually means, I think the term itself is an unfortunate implication. As an otaku myself, I dislike what usually described as "otaku-pandering", or at least enjoy those stuff in ways different from a stereotypical otaku. I believe that the otaku community is diverse enough that there is no way to actually pander to all of them without invoking otaku stereotypes.

I pretty much think it's anime meant to be watched alone.

I watch all my anime alone.

I don't. I like to watch in the living room. But after family members gave me weird looks, I decided to screen the anime I watch in public.

If an anime makes you feel conscious of other peoples' judgment, if it feels as though its the sort to watch alone, then there's probably a bit too much pandering involved.

It's like romance novels. A lot of romance readers cover up the cover.

Or just keep in mind what Robert Pattinson said about Twilight - it's like looking into another person's sexual fantasies.

Even Full Metal Alchemist?

FMA is a joy to watch on a plasma screen with family. So are the Detective Conan movies and anything and everything by Hayao Miyazaki, including his Lupin movie.

edited 7th May '13 8:38:00 PM by probablyinsane