Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Part of me still wants that Ward gets the help he needs. It hurts me to see someone who is that broken. Plus, I still consider what Garret did to him brainwashing, even if he himself doesn't.

And I am not okay with what Simmons did. Lowering herself on his level doesn't solve anything.

It solves the problem of him being alive, if you consider that a problem and if it had worked.

I agree with everyone.

I don't know where Ward will go from here, but his death in this episode might have been a good end to his character.

On the other hand, even if I agree with Simmons that he has to die, I don't like that she tried to do it. She's going to dark places and regardless of how justified (and it's very justified) here actions against Ward were, it's not a good thing for her to be that willing to do it.

The morality of it aside, she could have endangered the whole mission.

Going to go on the "let's not kill Ward" side, would've been a waste to have all that build-up just to have Simmons kill him.

I can't really see what future role he's going to have at this point though. Killed by Ultron drones perhaps.

edited 30th Apr '15 3:00:59 PM by Soble

That too.

What if they had still needed Ward?

Then again, she didn't try and kill him until they found Mike and Electricity dude (forgot his name), so maybe she took that into account, but it still could have backfired.

Though lets be honest, would anyone has chastised her if she'd succeeded? Fitz knew she was going to do it, and clearly agreed, since he made no attempt to stop her.

Oh, no one on Team Bus, no.

33's going to lose her shit soon though, and if Ward had died, Roaring Rampage of Revenge. From within a SHIELD base with a trigger-happy commander.

...so, no consequences really. Skye just proved how badass she is and they had May, plus Bakshi fulfilled his role already.

edited 30th Apr '15 4:18:07 PM by Soble

I think if Ward were to end up dying, it would be a more "epic" death.

Being unceremoniously blown up by Simmons would seem too much like a bridge-dropping....

I don't know man. Maybe because it seems so.....inglorious, that's why it could have happened.

He doesn't die redeeming himself or something else. He just gets blown up by his former kindhearted friend, who's come to hate him so much, that she'd kill him while his back was turned.

I got the impression Fitz thought it was a bad idea that was only good as a fantasy.

edited 30th Apr '15 7:53:52 PM by KnownUnknown

Definitely. When the teams were separating, he had a look on his face like "Should I say something? I should say something. But what should I say?"

Given Fitz went from bragging "Yeah, I attacked Ward, Hunter had to restrain me," to going "Wait, you're serious?" I don't think he's that supportive of the "sneak up on Ward and murder him" plan.

That is not how agreeing works. Maybe you could say he had no strong feelings against the idea, but he certainly didn't seem to be agreeing.

You could argue he was worried about how she was actually willing to go through with it.

What it meant for her, and what it said about what she'd become.

Well, ok, you don't really need to argue, cause it says a lot about both.

It's interesting how Ward and Hunter's character development have gone in opposite directions.

Ward started off as the trustworthy Jerkass with a Heart of Gold, and ended up being a traitor, cocky, arrogant, and nobody likes him. Hunter started off cocky, was pretty much a Butt-Monkey for all the crap he pulled, was betrayed himself, and is now one of the most genuine members of Coulson's team.

Hunter's past came back to haunt him through Bobbi who, even after betraying him, we haven't seen Hunter take action against. While Ward, who could've ignored it entirely, pursued his past and buried it burnt it down.

edited 30th Apr '15 10:56:20 PM by Soble

I don't think that Fitz knew the true extend of Jemma's plan. He thought that she was ready to defend herself if necessary, not that she wanted to straight up murder someone.

Given how concerned he seemed for her when she left with Ward, I think he knew exactly what she was planning to do. I think Fitz felt the following:

• He wasn't 100% onboard with the idea of actually killing Ward in cold blood.
• He wasn't opposed to the idea enough to make any effort to stop Jemma from doing it.
• He was very concerned about the Third Option in which Ward is a super-badass and nearly unstoppable person of mass destruction and Jemma is a scientist, and as a result her attempt to kill him inevitably ends badly for her.

Fitz seemed heavily against Jemma's plan, but I don't think it was entirely out of concern for Ward. If Jemma had killed Ward, he might have felt uncomfortable for a while, but wouldn't lose any sleep over it. If Jemma provoked Ward into killing her, he would be devastated.

edited 1st May '15 8:49:18 AM by TobiasDrake

Well, yeah, of course he didn't give a shit about Ward. Though oddly enough I never considered that he might be worried Ward would kill Emma. It never occurred to me, but of course he would.

Ward is the lunatic who betrayed them, tried to kill him and Emma already, and cost Fitz the ability to think clearly.

Now we know Ward wouldn't kill them (maybe because he no longer has orders to do so) but they didn't know that.

Hell, I bet Emma was surprised he just walked away like that. She likely expected him to end her right there.

She definitely expected him to kill her. Everything from the expression on her face to the way the scene is laid out creates that idea that Jemma is about to die. We even see her catch her breath once he doesn't, doing that whole near-death hyperventilation thing - do we have a trope for that? - that implies she was too scared to breathe.

edited 1st May '15 9:38:15 AM by TobiasDrake

They most certainly didn't know Ward wouldn't kill them. The last time they were alone with him, he did try to kill them. Frankly, I can't say we know Ward wouldn't kill them. He is unstable enough that we just can't be sure. He clearly doesn't want to kill them, but he certainly would if he found a reason for.

Anyway, yeah, Fitz doesn't give a shit if Ward was killed. He might have issues against killing in general, but I somewhat doubt, giving he is a S.H.I.E.L.D. agent. But I think he might not want Simons to become a killer, specially since it was could blood murder.. And, of course, he was most certainly worried Ward would kill her.

edited 1st May '15 10:29:01 AM by Heatth

Indeed. I can't help but think even Ward wouldn't want that, which is why he was so shocked he tried to do it.....

Well, that and he obviously doesn't want to die.

He did say he was disappointed on her. I think he regards her and Fitz as better people than him and other regular SHIELD/HYDRA agents. And he is sad even she would resort to murder.

Come to think of it, he probably thought of Skye in a similar way, until she shot him multiple times and left him to die. Might be one of the reasons he lost interest on her.

edited 1st May '15 10:43:17 AM by Heatth

I've been on the fence about whether Ward could be trusted in his claim to be over her, simply because obsession is a hard habit to kick. This episode finally convinced me.

Frankly, I'm surprised where we left him, which is why I suspect he's the character who's spinning off into his own series. At this point, he's ended his business relationships with S.H.I.E.L.D., Hydra, and Cal, and he's returned Agent 33. He's a loose end without a compelling reason to prioritize him above all the other things S.H.I.E.L.D. has to deal with right now.

He has no reason to ever cross paths with any of the factions that make up our conflict again, and yet instead of tying off the loose end by killing him off or imprisoning or whatever, the writers just let him walk away.

edited 1st May '15 10:56:49 AM by TobiasDrake

I wonder if he feels like he makes them worse people than they are, and he left Kara in Shield because he was afraid he screw her up too.

Wasn't it already confirmed Bobbi and Hunter are the ones getting the spin-off?