Since we've gotten told to stop talking generally about religion twice in the Homosexuality and Religion thread and were told that, if we want to talk generally about religion, we need to make a new thread, I have made a new thread.
Full disclosure: I am an agnostic atheist and anti-theist, but I'm very interested in theology and religion.
Mod Edit: All right, there are a couple of ground rules here:
- This is not a thread for mindless bashing of religion or of atheism/agnosticism etc. All view points are welcome here. Let's have a civil debate.
- Religion is a volatile subject. Please don't post here if you can't manage a civil discussion with viewpoints you disagree with. There will be no tolerance for people who can't keep the tone light hearted.
- There is no one true answer for this thread. Don't try to force out opposing voices.
edited 9th Feb '14 1:01:31 PM by Madrugada
Basic contradiction? Are you claiming that it does contradict itself or the contradictions are only because of mistranslation and different interpretations?
METAL GEAR!?
He Who Got Gud
No, I'm saying basic as in just normal, flat contridictions that are in the book. And there are some translations errors (I can provide examples if you want.)
edited 30th Jun '13 11:21:45 AM by Ringsea
The most edgy person on the Internet.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Just Judas's death count as one?
So their are contradictions in every copy? Yes I wouldn't mind seeing translation errors.
edited 30th Jun '13 11:26:19 AM by Wildcard
METAL GEAR!?
Will kill you
Not sure I should have this in my official atheism thread or in this thread but whatever:
Roman Pagan Religion: Attis was a son of the virgin Nana. His birth was celebrated on DEC-25. He was sacrificed as an adult in order to bring salvation to mankind. He died about MAR-25, after being crucified on a tree, and descended for three days into the underworld. On Sunday, he arose, "as the solar deity for the new season." His followers tied an image of Attis to a tree on "Black Friday," and carried him in a procession to the temple. His body was symbolically eaten by his followers in the form of bread. Worship of Attis began in Rome circa 200 BCE.
Greek Pagan Religion: Dionysus is another savior-god whose birth was observed on DEC-25. He was worshipped throughout much of the Middle East as well. He had a center of worship in Jerusalem in the 1st century BCE. Some ancient coins have been found in Gaza with Dionysus on one side and JHWH (Jehovah) on the other. In later years, his flesh and blood were symbolically eaten in the form of bread and wine. He was viewed as the son of Zeus, the Father God.
Egyptian Pagan Religion: Osiris is a savior-god who had been worshipped as far back as Neolithic times. "He was called Lord of Lords, King of Kings, God of Gods...the Resurrection and the Life, the Good shepherd...the god who 'made men and women be born again'". Three wise men announced his birth. His followers ate cakes of wheat which symbolized his body. Many sayings associated with Osiris were taken over into the Bible. This included:
- 23rd Psalm: an appeal to Osiris as the good Shepherd to lead believers through the valley of the shadow of death and to green pastures and still waters
- Lord's Prayer: "O amen, who art in heaven..."
- Many parables attributed to Jesus.
Worship of Osiris, and celebration of his DEC-25 birth, were established throughout the Roman Empire by the end of the 1st century BCE.
Persian Pagan Religion: Mithra was a Persian savior. Worship of Mithra became common throughout the Roman Empire, particularly among the Roman civil service and military. Mithraism was a competitor of Christianity until the 4th century. Their god was believed to have been born on DEC-25, circa 500 BCE. His birth was witnessed by shepherds and by gift-carrying Magi. This was celebrated as the "Dies Natalis Solic Invite," The "Birthday of the Unconquered Sun." Some followers believed that he was born of a virgin. During his life, he performed many miracles, cured many illnesses, and cast out devils. He celebrated a Last Supper with his 12 disciples. He ascended to heaven at the time of the spring equinox, about March 21.
The Babylonians celebrated their "Victory of the Sun-God" Festival on DEC-25. Saturnalia (the Festival of Saturn) was celebrated from DEC-17 to 23 in the Roman Empire. The Roman Emperor Aurelian blended Saturnalia with a number of birth celebrations of savior Gods from other religions, into a single holy day: DEC-25.
This is very short list and mainly deals with your holidays. In actuality, it goes on and on... 100's of religions pre-dating jesus... christianity is stolen - all of it, plain and simple. Not a single story or quote was originally from jesus. If you'd bother to actually do the research you'd easily find your whole belief system is nothing more than a plagiarized piece of shit.
I know you are scared, christians by nature are weak. But its time to grow up and face reality. The reason why you need to constantly defend your religion over and over is so you can grasp on to some hope that its real, when its not. You cannot, as an adult, live your entire life believe in boogie men. You will constantly encounter resistance because non-believers are just simply smarter and more intelligent. You can use all the ad hominem attacks and straw man arguments you want, an educated, intelligent thinking person wont fall for that bullshit.
Faith: Firm belief in something for which there is no proof -Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Morality is doing what's right, regardless of what you're told.
Religion is doing what you're told, regardless of what's right.
"No Jesus, Know Peace. Know Jesus, No Peace."
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. -Galileo Galilei
Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear. -Thomas Jefferson
"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it." -Buddha
Remember, like history, religion is written by the victors. It is then revised by the power mongers, leveraged by the fearful and wielded as a nasty weapon by the conservatives. Same as it ever was.
I am tired of worshiping a fairy-tale ‘God' and leaving the future to the whim of idiots and fanatics. I will take the reins of the world into my own hands and guide it as I wish, as I may, as other will allow me to. I will set myself as a god. With the advantage of superior knowledge and the latest technology at my fingertips, I will rule as I see just. You may claim godship also and join me, or try to create the world in your own image. All you need to do is realize that you are also worthy and then attain the knowledge I have gained. If you will not realize and accept that you are a godlike creator then I have no pity for you and I will continue to dominate you until you come into the light.
"I don't give a rat's ass about going to hell. I guess it's because I feel like I'm already there." -Mugen
He Who Got Gud
Maybe. The King James Bible, the one I see the most, has a few. I can't say for sure. I can't say there are no flat out contridictions that were written.
http://goddidntsaythat.com/
<- Examples
I can't personally say that Christianity has ever appealed to me.
Were I so inclined, there are lots of more interesting religions and gods to worship. Ones that aren't all about begging forgiveness to enter the afterlife so you can sit and fawn over the egotistical git for the rest of eternity. I mean, really, fuck that noise.
yeah..to be honest if theres one hing about christianity I'm not too keen on, its that Heaven sounds pretty boring.
He Who Got Gud
Much better than Hell ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
...
How much I don't know.
edited 30th Jun '13 12:22:35 PM by Ringsea
The most edgy person on the Internet.
NOT THE BEES
Unicorns, man.
(It's an ox in pretty much every other translation ever. King James is a terrible translation on the whole, but...fucking unicorns, man.)
edited 30th Jun '13 12:43:04 PM by Pykrete
CP 20: I'm agnostic but were I a believer that would not work to turn me away from religion. Nobody likes being condescended too, and the religious are not weak by nature, many believe that they should stand firm for others because of their beliefs or different moral codes they have, religion is often not the be all of a person and many will accept questioning of their religion. Maybe you should do some questioning of your own if you accepted that so easily or came up with that.
@Ringsea: I don't know, apparently all the awesome people are going to hell according to a lot of people.
edited 30th Jun '13 12:44:42 PM by Wildcard
METAL GEAR!?
Hell makes no sense. If God is everywhere, then Hell, a place where he is not, can't exist.
edited 30th Jun '13 12:45:40 PM by Elfive
@Ringsea: I dunno. eternal suffering or eternally sitting around a golden city with no strife and constant presence of a god to worship sounds like a choice between pain and slavery in a gilded cage to me.
Manliest Person on Skype
This is exactly the sort of thing I was talking about when the thread was new and I popped in for a little while. This complete failure to realize that not all religion is of the dogmatic scripture-based kind. It's not just believers who do it.
Stuff what I do.
Obedience is doing what you're told, regardless of what is right, and a lot of religions stress obedience.
well, keep in mind, it helps that most religions include a moral framework, therefore making "doing the right thing" the same thing as "doing the religiously ordained thing"
V
@ Couchpotato 20: What are you views on Buddhism, Shinto and the Roman Belief Systems?
Keep Rolling On
NOT THE BEES
So does law. Usually with more concrete and apparent threat if you don't.
edited 30th Jun '13 1:27:01 PM by Pykrete
Which is why I follow the law, but not religion.
Also the rules of law makes sense, and can be changed if they don't.
Can, not will.
He Who Got Gud
Still. Seems like a nice place.
The most edgy person on the Internet.
NOT THE BEES
ahahaha
Oh God you're serious.
That's one sentence from the Ohio Revised Code, and is supposed to address fiscal emergencies (and inadvertently indicates quite well why they can't get anything done in the event of one). The Fleisch-Kincaid and Gunning-Fog readability scales both estimate that you'd need over 200 years of formal education to understand it.
He Who Got Gud
It still makes sense to those people, AND we can change it.
The most edgy person on the Internet.
The fact that you can even consider that drivel law says a lot about what's wrong with the American legal system.
Also I was talking about the logic behind the laws, not ass-backward legal documents written by illiterates.
edited 30th Jun '13 4:19:30 PM by Elfive
That comes from all the different interpretations, rewrittings, and translations mostly. And some basic contridiction.
The most edgy person on the Internet.