RWBY General Discussion

Lying, I'd go with, actually. But then, that's rather standard for teachers, because they often present things in a manner that can build a better knowledge framework, even if they're not accurate to begin with. People lie all the time about all kinds of things - nobody seems to hold it against Blake that she lied about being a faunus on her entrance paperwork. I do agree that Ozpin does not appear to be malicious or deliberately harmful. He's trying to organize a war, and he's prepared for casualties, but he's not throwing people away.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw

I hope some Lewis Carroll gets injected into RWBY. Though it might be hard to pull off Mind Screw now... Regardless, a team consisting of some of the characters of Wonderland, lead by "Alice" would be interesting. Also, Weiss hunting down some Vorpal Dust to slay a Jabberwock Grimm.

edited 28th May '16 10:40:24 AM by WillDeRegio

I'm not so sure he isn't throwing people away. Not that he's doing it maliciously, and he clearly feels bad about it, but he's it's implied he definitely tossed people into the grinder to stop Salem. It's heavily implied he did this to Summer, though Summer was apparantly willing, It's suggested the reason Raven is so against working with them is because she doesn't want to be sacrificed.

And you can imply a lot of dark things based on his treatment of Ruby and Pyrrha really.

He clearly wants humanity to survive and thrive, at least for as long as it can, and that pretty much makes him good by default compared to Salem, but there's certainly enough holes you could poke to make him look bad depending on your point of view.

edited 28th May '16 10:56:11 AM by AJSthe2nd

All the things what Ozpin has done are relatively low-key. While few people might have been lost in the way, it wasn't really his full intention. Salem hates him for personal reasons. You know, that one thing Ozpin did what threw her off the loop.

Continue the bloodline, Fujimaru!

RWBY manga chapter 6 is out for those who are interested.

Hyped for Hyperdimension Neptunia V 2

I still think Raven is working for Ozpin, his darkest path, the infiltrator route. She probably knows some of the darker truths that Ironwood can only sense have not been revealed. When Ozpin spoke of scouts to Ironwood, I really think he was talking about Raven, not Team RWBY. Still, the Brotherhood group do know something about Ozpin that we haven't been told because of Glynda's cryptic comment about Ozpin's experience.

Ozpin seems to be lying by omission - it's not what he says that's the problem, it's what he hasn't said. I think there's a good chance he's responsible for Salem's situation and perhaps even for the level of threat the Grimm pose (perhaps even their existence). His past mistakes have been catastrophic, even his comments have suggested that. But that indicates he's The Atoner. The villain songs may suggest Ozpin's hiding dark truths but it also shows the difference between The Atoner and the villain - villains do not take responsibility for their actions and the evil their actions bring, which is exactly how the villain songs come across - The Atoner takes personal responsibility for their actions, the villain does not.

I've seen some fans view the villain songs as the unassailable truth, when it's just a point-of-view song, a personal interpretation that brings with it the bias of the character concerned. It may have truth within it, but it won't be the only or full truth. Ozpin hasn't given his side of the story, and he probably won't. The villainous version will come out because that's how these stories play out - the villain makes the reveal, in the darkest, worst possible way and The Atoner doesn't defend or deny it because no-one is harder on The Atoner than The Atoner. The protagonists usually abandon The Atoner in horror, but will then gradually put the full context together, find the truth within the darkest stories, and weigh up the actions of both The Atoner and the villains since those mistakes were originally made.

In a small way, this has already happened in this story with Weiss's attitude towards Blake upon finding out Blake used to be White Fang. Her decision rested on the decisions Blake has made since those days - her choice to leave the White Fang and sever that affiliation ever since. Even when the storyline is much more dramatic than that example, the pattern is the same regarding how the protagonists make peace with The Atoner's past and the most important difference between The Atoner and the villain.

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

Chibi rwby episode 3 is on You Tube.

"When I offered to make Norea my third back-up girlfriend she just glared at me and started throwing things at me.." Renee Costa

the actual episode

and the short version

I needed this today.

please call me "XionKuriyama" or some variation, thanks! | What is the good deed that you can do right now?

*6: When were either of those hinted at or suggested?

edited 28th May '16 12:46:00 PM by Cross

Cute Zwei is cute.

Something about Yang playing tag with Blake seems a bit...dark humour-ish.

Uh, am I the only one who thinks Jaune sounds a bit...off?

Why is tagging Black considered dark-humor to ya?

You don't need both arms to tag someone.

YO. Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie.

You know, trying to run away from her and stuff.

Continue the bloodline, Fujimaru!

That's a...I don't...

Hmm, there's a connection there, maybe.

That's not a coincidence.

YO. Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie.

Blake was running, when it was her turn to be "it" (the one taking care of Yang following her emotional breakdown)

I think it's worth noting that events have been controlling Ozpin as much as they've been controlling everyone else. Barring the idea that he's the old man in the story, which hasn't been proven, the Maidens are a force he originally had no input over. The power transference machine was something he, Glinda, Qrow, and Ironwood cooked up in an attempt to wrestle control over what might as well be a force of nature. They wanted trained, ready, willing volunteers instead of some poor random shmuck getting the Maiden's abilities. Cinder forced them to turn to Pyrrha before she was ready by attacking the Fall Maiden and throwing things out of whack.

Also, someone mentioned that it was underhanded of him to go to the one girl he knew would not say no. I disagree with that notion, since Pyrrha's doormat tendencies compelling her to go along with what everyone demands of her isn't something that's obvious to anyone but her closest friends.

Opzin wanted to prevent a war, he did not want his students involved at all. His plan was to nip the whole conflict in the bud before it blossomed into calamity, but he was operating on incomplete information. Recall that argument between Qrow and Ironwood about the lack of communication due to the fear that their spy had been comprised.

When he sent RWBY to that failed city on Vale's outskirts he intended them to go in as scouts. (Again we have an example of him trying to control a situation to prevent people from getting hurt too much. RWBY wasn't supposed to go there and for good reason, but he knew they'd sneak over there anyway. He didn't want to stifle their very natural, if misplaced, ambitions - Huntsmen gonna hunt - so he placed them with a trusted and well qualified Huntsman who could be relied on to keep them in line.) Find out what was happening, report back, then in all likelihood let Ironwood do his thing. Had that plan went smoothly, the Atlas army would have caught the bad guys by surprise, steamrolled the White Fang and stopped the train and Grimm attack. Probably have captured more people besides Torchwick who might have talked. Again, events outside his control forced the matter onto an entirely different set of tracks.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.

" I'd put him as Well-Intentioned Extremist, and most likely just The Atoner."

Even them I dont think the narrative will forgive him quite easy, sacrifice have a line about him "all your faith in ancient way, make your head a maze" show Ozpin as tradicionalist of short, what it was is what it need to be because it just is, I will consider Ruby will reject that and show her own way.

" People lie all the time about all kinds of things - nobody seems to hold it against Blake that she lied about being a faunus on her entrance paperwork"

But ozpin is more than that, he is headmaster and responsable of live of many, lying or having a agenda can change a LOT the meaing of his decisions

"I still think Raven is working for Ozpin, his darkest path, the infiltrator route. She probably knows some of the darker truths that Ironwood can only sense have not been revealed"

this could have some weight, yeah Qrow said she is dangerous and they have conflict view of the world but again, who is saying that? Qrow is vey anti-authoritarian and somewhat of a dick, engaging in fight for petty reason, what can of view could clash with him?

" Ozpin hasn't given his side of the story, and he probably won't."

So far the two villian song(sacrifice and divide) show Ozpin as someone playing a chess again against Salem and apareny is not enought, granted that could be boasting, also both Sacrifice and Cinder broadcast said Ozpin is tradicionalist of sort, guiding himself in ancient way that make him confusing to everyone around or quite simple, Ozpin is not playing in the same field as everyone else.

"the Maidens are a force he originally had no input over. The power transference machine was something he, Glinda, Qrow, and Ironwood cooked up in an attempt to wrestle control over what might as well be a force of nature."

Except in the legend the wizard DID give maiden the power, which mean Ozpin is try to control the mistake HE created in the first damn place.

"Pyrrha's doormat tendencies compelling her to go along with what everyone demands of her isn't something that's obvious to anyone but her closest friends."

Sure, Ozpin seen the kind of guy who know more about other that he said, Phyrra isn subtle enought about it, even them is not her doormath tendecy what it matter, if that she is honor-bound,belive in destiny and higer calling and is thebest fighter of the bunch, all that can be know and use and Ozpin see the kind of guy who will do that.

"Recall that argument between Qrow and Ironwood about the lack of communication due to the fear that their spy had been comprised."

And even them Ironwood feel he is keping thing, granted Ironwood have not saying over this consider he hide penny existence to the other members

"He didn't want to stifle their very natural, if misplaced, ambitions - Huntsmen gonna hunt - so he placed them with a trusted and well qualified Huntsman who could be relied on to keep them in line."

Except that thing almost go badly: Weiss face was smash by not-leatherface and Neo almost killed Yang back there, also considering how RWBY have been chasing the white fang, the idea of them backing up to Atlas is just silly, they are children, clearly unexperience getting into more serious manner and him allow it, that dosent expect well of him.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

Unless you have confirmation that Ozpin is the Wizard, and I'd argue the story implies otherwise, this is nothing but speculation and is not grounds for any debate outside of the hypothetical.

In other words, Ozpin would see a capable, trained, and willing volunteer. Saying this is bad on Ozpin's part is like saying a college football scout is bad for wanting to recruit the star player of a high school football team who planned on getting a football scholarship to college anyway.

This is true and I will not contest this. I will say though that just what he's allegedly keeping from them remains unknown. Whether he's deliberately misleading them about something remains to be seen. Note that despite this, Glynda and Qrow still trust Ozpin. I'd like to think they both have pretty sound judgment.

Which proves my point, he has no control over these events. Even his own plan for that scouting party resulted in an attack on the city. Calling them children is ironic, considering that's what Ozpin calls them as well. But Glynda is also right, they are the defenders of the world. They are huntresses in training, they volunteered for this and they know the price should they fail.

And I honestly don't know what this means.

"'Id argue the story implies otherwise, this is nothing but speculation and is not grounds for any debate outside of the hypothetical."

The Story is ambigious if he is he wizard or just related to him in any way, even them, the Maiden power come from someone and he is trying to control that with a secret group away of all the public, that is very weird in itself

" Ozpin would see a capable, trained, and willing volunteer."

willing is the key word here, yes he gived the option to back down...but he did to a person he probably know would acept, that is pretty much the definition of Batman gambit.

Let put it this way; he is requesting Phyrra to have power she did not understand for a secret organization fighting for THE GREATER GOOD....yeah that is shady as shit.

"Whether he's deliberately misleading them about something remains to be seen. Note that despite this, Glynda and Qrow still trust Ozpin. I'd like to think they both have pretty sound judgment."

Yeah but if you kept secret from member of the already SECRET sociaty dosent said nothing good about it, and the future will tell if their faith and Opzin was misplace or not.

"They are huntresses in training, they volunteered for this and they know the price should they fail."

but they are young and still dosent the streght to fight, throw them to that conflict was foolish as hell.

"And I honestly don't know what this means. "

Im taking about this:

"He didn't want to stifle their very natural, if misplaced, ambitions - Huntsmen gonna hunt - so he placed them with a trusted and well qualified Huntsman who could be relied on to keep them in line.) Find out what was happening, report back, then in all likelihood let Ironwood do his thing"

that just go stright to hell

edited 28th May '16 10:26:14 PM by unknowing

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

His treatment of Pyrrha, sure, what about his treatment of Ruby^note aside from, like everyone else at the school training her to be a huntress and a leader makes you think she's going to be thrown away?

Also, if anyone's going for a Russian solution to the Grimm^note ie, throw bodies at it until it goes away it's Ironheart, except he's doing it with robots.

The Grimm have been threatening humanity for centuries. Exactly how old do you think Ozpin is to be responsible for their creation? It's not weird at all. He told Pyrrha that corrupt people would seek to kill the Maidens for their power - and Cinder did.^note Possibly more than Cinder, since we have no idea who the other Maidens are. I don't think Ozpin is the wizard^note despite his name but he seems to want to be the wizard, so as to better protect humanity. And from what has been shown so far, I would be ok with that. It sounds shady, but what we have seen isn't. Ozpin and company are clearly trying to protect humanity from the Grimm. They're not building up power to threaten other kingdoms, or to oppress people^note aside from, possibly the military White Fang, they're not eliminating rivals fr power. They are, quite literally, trying to save human civilization from extinction, while Cinder^note , Torchwick, Mercury, and whoever Cinder answered the phone with are trying to burn it down. Ozpin quite literally is fighting for the greater good. That might change, but if Oz is The Atoner, then I doubt it.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw

New Chibi is out.

Blake jokes continue. Ruby is a sore loser. Yang's got practical hair.

grah

Well here's the thing with Ruby. Ozpin takes her in, pretty much just because he knows she's got hidden superpowers and she has a desire to to be a hero, to the point where he lets her in 2 years earlier than she should. She's good, maybe even better than most her age, but the letting her in because she helped with Torchwick was pretty clearly a smokescreen for him wanting another Silver Eyed warrior to replace Summer. Anyone with basic hunter ability could take Junior's thugs and Ruby was of no help against Roman or Cinder, Glynda did all the work.

He then encourages her to continue poking into Roman's underworld matters despite knowing she's totally outmatched, and approves of them going on a mission way over their heads (I know he says they'll go anyway but if he really put his foot down and said they'd be expelled if they went and he'd send someone more experienced to deal with it, they'd have to let it be) where sure enough they all nearly get killed.

Why would he keep sending his future trump card into certain danger he's well aware she can't handle as she is? Most likely, it's because he's attempting to force awaken her abilities by either her or a friend being in mortal danger, or worse. And what would have happened if Raven didn't interfere? Ruby's beloved sister would have died which probably would have done it.

Pretty much every action Ozpin takes with Ruby can look like he's carefully setting her up for a very specific role while having her think otherwise. And while yes he's doing it for the benefit of humanity, and Ruby herself might be happy with his end for her which is why he thinks nothing of it (ie he thinks "She wants to be hero, and I'll make her a hero. Then she won't complain no matter what I tricked her into doing". But it's still a very shady thing to do to people and it's implied he's doing it for a long time.

I'm expecting Ozpin's age to be more like thousands than centuries. The Maidens apparently go back so far that the truth has been lost to legend and fairytale. Even at the time the Maidens were given the power, the wizard stated he had been living in that forest for centuries.

If Ozpin is the wizard, and the wizard was already centuries old when the Maidens were first created, he's going to be very, very old. Even if he inherited the wizard's power, he's still going to be centuries old.

I made the theory a while ago that perhaps the Grimm are Salem's Semblance, in a way. If Ozpin is responsible - even if indirectly - for Salem's state, and she's responsible for the threat of the Grimm, that would make Ozpin possibly to blame for the threat level of the Grimm, even if indirectly.

The alternative is that Salem was 'taken over' by the Grimm and therefore has come to understand them in a way humanity couldn't, and her perspective is driving her belief in the futility of Ozpin's hope.

Disagree with this. The kids aren't stupid. They know they're poking into things that could get them into loads of trouble if they''re caught. Being threatened with expulsion isn't going to stop them. They agreed with Blake there was something far too dark going on and they were pretty much fuelled by the Adults Are Useless trope when they decided to keep investigating no matter what.

By doing what he did, Ozpin at least ensured a fully-trained professional Huntsman was present to back them up if necessary - something they wouldn't have had if they had sneaked away by themselves (and even then, with the warning that Oobleck could pull them from the mission if they weren't up to it, they were still plotting to give him the slip once they got to the relevant area).

While I do think Team RWBY being in the area suited Ozpin's purpose, I really don't believe they were the scouts he was talking to Ironwood about. I think Raven was the scout, and Team RWBY was his decoy.

edited 29th May '16 3:06:57 PM by Wyldchyld

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

"His treatment of Pyrrha, sure, what about his treatment of Rubynote makes you think she's going to be thrown away? "

Because it something, it is implied he already did with Summer, let face: Ozpin wasnt just giving Phyrra for free, it was not "so have th power and do nothing" just Like Ruby.

"It's not weird at all. He told Pyrrha that corrupt people would seek to kill the Maidens for their power - and Cinder did"

And he is telling her that she is going to be one of those Maiden that minutes ago was just a fairy tail.....nothing weird about that?

"they're not eliminating rivals fr power. They are, quite literally, trying to save human civilization from extinction, while Cinder"

You forget that Ozpin,Glynda and Ironwood are probably already in top of the civilization, the only ones so far are Raven and Qrow who as you can guess, are quite the Wild cards of the ozpinmanty

"Ozpin quite literally is fighting for the greater good. That might change, but if Oz is The Atoner, then I doubt it."

he can fight for it, dosent change his method are...questionable at best, the thing about fighting for the greater good is that it make dificult to deal in the indiviual level

"he kids aren't stupid. They know they're poking into things that could get them into loads of trouble if they''re caught. Being threatened with expulsion isn't going to stop them."

That make them reckless which is another definition of Stupid.

"By doing what he did, Ozpin at least ensured a fully-trained professional Huntsman was present to back them up if necessary - something they wouldn't have had if they had sneaked away by themselves"

And Yang and Weiss almost die because of it, as is clear RWBY is way about their league:

-Weiss have her face stomp by not-leatherface

-Yang was crup stomp by Neo and in Volume 3 she learn to not face the edgelord

-Ruby lost one of her friend(Penny) recive the end of Neo and Roman old good ultraviolence and THEM see Phyrra dying.

In way Cinder is right, he is prepare to a war nobody know againt a foe they dont understand for something he may have a hand, that speak of colosal level of arrogance

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

I wouldn't say Ozpin and Ironwood are the top of society. They're very important connected people yes, but they aren't the leaders of their nations, they have councils and other bigwigs they're subordinate too, which is why Ozpin was disgraced in the first place.

Ozpin could probably make a power play to take over, and most of the hunters would probably back him too, so the fact that he hasn't is proof he's not in it for an evil takeover at least.

Of course if the civilians and politicans do the stupid thing and turn on the hunters as a result of the Vytal disaster, they may have no choice but to do so to keep the Grimm from rising in threat because the hunters can't do their job, which is probably Salem's plan, but that's on Salem, not Ozpin and Ironwood.