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Ambiguous Name: Netorare Genre
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Ambiguous Name: Netorare Genre get usage counts

 26 peccantis, Fri, 22nd Mar '13 11:39:12 AM Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
the flies will find you
I know nothing about cuckold fetish porn outside the Japanese cartooning context... and I'm not going to find out just fot a TVT rename XD

Rename to Cuckold Fetish or Cuckold Fetish Genre should be ok.
before the darkness arrives
Cuckold Kink, maybe?

 28 King Zeal, Fri, 22nd Mar '13 5:04:30 PM from Well Above You
Tali'Shepard Vas Normandy-Rannoch
That only works if we're only going to cover the examples which are played for fetish, and not for drama, comedy, etc.

EDIT: Actually, that would pretty much be covered by Your Cheating Heart, My Girl Is a Slut.

We don't, to my knowledge, have a trope about a swinging, polygamous, or adventurous couple where the man loses his love to the third party.

edited 22nd Mar '13 5:09:32 PM by KingZeal

Per-fec-tion: -n- an exemplification of supreme excellence; an unsurpassable degree of accuracy or excellence (see also: King Zeal)
Luc "Nickname" French
Just to note: I added the "Why is the genre so unpopular" bit from the old version of the page to the Analysis tab, since in my mind, at least, it was worth preserving. Should I add a link to the "Further Reading" section?

Thanks
Luc "Preserver" French

 30 King Zeal, Sun, 31st Mar '13 10:42:33 AM from Well Above You
Tali'Shepard Vas Normandy-Rannoch
Created a new YKTTW, which may help clarify this trope.
Per-fec-tion: -n- an exemplification of supreme excellence; an unsurpassable degree of accuracy or excellence (see also: King Zeal)
Pika is the bombchu!
If we're clearing this up in YKTTW, can we dump this thread?
mudshark: I don't expect Nate to make sense, really
 32 Septimus Heap, Sun, 12th May '13 11:57:19 PM from Madrid, Spain Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
No, because the YKTTW doesn't fix this trope persay.

 33 Native Jovian, Mon, 13th May '13 4:40:58 PM from Orlando, Florida
Io vs Jupiter
Well, first order of business seems to be to decide whether this is a trope or an index. Is it about instances of cuckholding in works, or about works that have plots revolving around it?

If it's the latter, is it even something that happens outside of porn?
 34 King Zeal, Tue, 14th May '13 7:24:10 PM from Well Above You
Tali'Shepard Vas Normandy-Rannoch
Yes. Although I suspect that our Tropers' usual Small Reference Pools will be a problem.

Indecent Proposal, for example, was entirely based around the trope.

There's also the one Futurama movie where Hermes' wife leaves him for her ex, and he is superior to Hermes in every way.
Per-fec-tion: -n- an exemplification of supreme excellence; an unsurpassable degree of accuracy or excellence (see also: King Zeal)
Uh, no, NTR is about the fetish, not just the act of cheating. That's the kind of thing that the YKTTW was supposed to siphon off (though it seems to have gone in a different direction).

I've never seen Indecent Proposal, so maybe it counts, but I'd be very surprised if Futurama did.
 36 King Zeal, Thu, 16th May '13 5:46:10 AM from Well Above You
Tali'Shepard Vas Normandy-Rannoch
That's splitting hairs. When used as a fetish, Netorare is about cheating, humiliation, and depravity, which is what "cuckolding" is. However, the trope can exist outside of the fetish in the same way that a story can have an animal person but not inherently pander to a Furry fetish.

The goal of cuckolding is to induce an uncomfortable feeling. Whether or not an individual gets off on that feeling is up to them.

edited 16th May '13 5:47:46 AM by KingZeal

Per-fec-tion: -n- an exemplification of supreme excellence; an unsurpassable degree of accuracy or excellence (see also: King Zeal)
It's an important distinction. NTR is a porn trope. It is never used to refer to things outside of that. Now, it might get non-porn references, just like Pizza Boy Special Delivery does (though that's not the best example, since that's always parody), but the fetish part is the core of the trope.

Which is why I still suggest turning this into an exampleless definition page and split off Cuckolding into its own trope.
 38 Willbyr, Thu, 16th May '13 9:30:12 AM from North Little Rock, AR Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Anime-ted
[up] I tend to agree. "Cuckold" has been around at least since Shakespeare's days IIRC; it's only been fairly recently that the NTR genre has made it something to fetishize.
 39 Septimus Heap, Thu, 16th May '13 9:31:02 AM from Madrid, Spain Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
I agree with @37.

 40 Larkmarn, Thu, 16th May '13 9:53:58 AM Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
Agree with 37.

I support making the page description only, but I don't think the examples should be kept either. It is a porn trope that rivals guro so examples normally wouldn't be allowed for tropes of the type.

 42 Septimus Heap, Thu, 16th May '13 11:10:53 PM from Madrid, Spain Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
I am open to cutting the examples, but I'd like to point out that "fetish =! porn", which is what @37 seems to imply.

 43 Clarste, Fri, 17th May '13 12:42:51 AM Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Three Steps
If this is exclusive to porn, then it's questionable whether we should be documenting it in the first place. If it's not, then broadening it makes sense.

Also, even if it is a porn trope and for some reason we decide to keep it, it still doesn't need a Japanese name.

 44 King Zeal, Fri, 17th May '13 7:28:10 AM from Well Above You
Tali'Shepard Vas Normandy-Rannoch
I tend to agree. "Cuckold" has been around at least since Shakespeare's days IIRC; it's only been fairly recently that the NTR genre has made it something to fetishize

Not really. It's existed for a long, long time.

It's an important distinction. NTR is a porn trope. It is never used to refer to things outside of that.

But that's not the point. If NTR is porn, then why is it on this site, considering the new content policy?

But the point I'm making is that "netorare" simply means "cuckold", and there can be an entire genre around it or simply a plot point. Like you can have an action movie with a romance scene or a romantic film with an action scene.

Now, it might get non-porn references, just like Pizza Boy Special Delivery does (though that's not the best example, since that's always parody), but the fetish part is the core of the trope.

Not really. For example, you can have a movie where a husband finds his wife cheating with the pizza boy and be neither porn nor a parody.

edited 17th May '13 7:33:01 AM by KingZeal

Per-fec-tion: -n- an exemplification of supreme excellence; an unsurpassable degree of accuracy or excellence (see also: King Zeal)
[up][up] It's a fetish the Japanese named. That's really the only reason it needs a Japanese name, but I think that's a pretty good reason for an exampleless definition page. It's not like we're going to remove the Cuckold Fetish redirect or anything.
 46 Septimus Heap, Fri, 17th May '13 8:18:34 AM from Madrid, Spain Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
Question: Should the definition page have the Genre suffix or not?

 47 King Zeal, Fri, 17th May '13 8:46:00 AM from Well Above You
Tali'Shepard Vas Normandy-Rannoch
[up][up] Cuckold erotica has existed long before the Japanese gave it a name. It's not created by the Japanese, nor was it named by the Japanese.
Per-fec-tion: -n- an exemplification of supreme excellence; an unsurpassable degree of accuracy or excellence (see also: King Zeal)
 48 Clarste, Fri, 17th May '13 2:32:58 PM Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Three Steps
For the record, "netorare" just means "cuckold" in Japanese. It's hardly the most imaginative name, and for all we know they just translated it from foreign erotica. Unlikely, since why would they need to, but we have no evidence that they didn't.

 49 Septimus Heap, Sun, 26th May '13 7:37:05 AM from Madrid, Spain Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
OK, I see some consensus for splitting off the trope to Cuckholding and to keep Netorare or Netorare Genre as a def page. I would prefer to use the former, since a) it seems to be the more common term b) it keeps the analogy with Hentai and c) on a Fan Speak article the suffix seems unnecessary.

Any comments?

Piffy
[up]Sounds good to me.
Because underscores break everything: Working link to my Troper page

Page Action: Netorare Genre
4th Jun '13 12:54:00 PM
What would be the best way to fix the page?
At issue:
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