Ambiguous Name: Netorare Genre

I know nothing about cuckold fetish porn outside the Japanese cartooning context... and I'm not going to find out just fot a TVT rename XD

Rename to Cuckold Fetish or Cuckold Fetish Genre should be ok.

Cuckold Kink, maybe?

That only works if we're only going to cover the examples which are played for fetish, and not for drama, comedy, etc.

EDIT: Actually, that would pretty much be covered by Your Cheating Heart, My Girl Is a Slut.

We don't, to my knowledge, have a trope about a swinging, polygamous, or adventurous couple where the man loses his love to the third party.

edited 22nd Mar '13 5:09:32 PM by KingZeal

Just to note: I added the "Why is the genre so unpopular" bit from the old version of the page to the Analysis tab, since in my mind, at least, it was worth preserving. Should I add a link to the "Further Reading" section?

Thanks
Luc "Preserver" French

Created a new YKTTW, which may help clarify this trope.

If we're clearing this up in YKTTW, can we dump this thread?

No, because the YKTTW doesn't fix this trope persay.

Well, first order of business seems to be to decide whether this is a trope or an index. Is it about instances of cuckholding in works, or about works that have plots revolving around it?

If it's the latter, is it even something that happens outside of porn?

Yes. Although I suspect that our Tropers' usual Small Reference Pools will be a problem.

Indecent Proposal, for example, was entirely based around the trope.

There's also the one Futurama movie where Hermes' wife leaves him for her ex, and he is superior to Hermes in every way.

Uh, no, NTR is about the fetish, not just the act of cheating. That's the kind of thing that the YKTTW was supposed to siphon off (though it seems to have gone in a different direction).

I've never seen Indecent Proposal, so maybe it counts, but I'd be very surprised if Futurama did.

That's splitting hairs. When used as a fetish, Netorare is about cheating, humiliation, and depravity, which is what "cuckolding" is. However, the trope can exist outside of the fetish in the same way that a story can have an animal person but not inherently pander to a Furry fetish.

The goal of cuckolding is to induce an uncomfortable feeling. Whether or not an individual gets off on that feeling is up to them.

edited 16th May '13 5:47:46 AM by KingZeal

It's an important distinction. NTR is a porn trope. It is never used to refer to things outside of that. Now, it might get non-porn references, just like Pizza Boy Special Delivery does (though that's not the best example, since that's always parody), but the fetish part is the core of the trope.

Which is why I still suggest turning this into an exampleless definition page and split off Cuckolding into its own trope.

I tend to agree. "Cuckold" has been around at least since Shakespeare's days IIRC; it's only been fairly recently that the NTR genre has made it something to fetishize.

I agree with @37.

Agree with 37.

I support making the page description only, but I don't think the examples should be kept either. It is a porn trope that rivals guro so examples normally wouldn't be allowed for tropes of the type.

I am open to cutting the examples, but I'd like to point out that "fetish =! porn", which is what @37 seems to imply.

If this is exclusive to porn, then it's questionable whether we should be documenting it in the first place. If it's not, then broadening it makes sense.

Also, even if it is a porn trope and for some reason we decide to keep it, it still doesn't need a Japanese name.

Not really. It's existed for a long, long time.

But that's not the point. If NTR is porn, then why is it on this site, considering the new content policy?

But the point I'm making is that "netorare" simply means "cuckold", and there can be an entire genre around it or simply a plot point. Like you can have an action movie with a romance scene or a romantic film with an action scene.

Not really. For example, you can have a movie where a husband finds his wife cheating with the pizza boy and be neither porn nor a parody.

edited 17th May '13 7:33:01 AM by KingZeal

It's a fetish the Japanese named. That's really the only reason it needs a Japanese name, but I think that's a pretty good reason for an exampleless definition page. It's not like we're going to remove the Cuckold Fetish redirect or anything.

Question: Should the definition page have the Genre suffix or not?

Cuckold erotica has existed long before the Japanese gave it a name. It's not created by the Japanese, nor was it named by the Japanese.

For the record, "netorare" just means "cuckold" in Japanese. It's hardly the most imaginative name, and for all we know they just translated it from foreign erotica. Unlikely, since why would they need to, but we have no evidence that they didn't.

OK, I see some consensus for splitting off the trope to Cuckholding and to keep Netorare or Netorare Genre as a def page. I would prefer to use the former, since a) it seems to be the more common term b) it keeps the analogy with Hentai and c) on a Fan Speak article the suffix seems unnecessary.

Any comments?

Sounds good to me.